Are some cham temps too high?

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'll never understand how the FL keepers can house their chams outside. The only time I'm able to take mine out is very late in the evening right before dust. I sometimes try to allow them on the screened back porch very early in the morning but it gets hot so fast out there. I live one mile from the beach and normally have a cool ocean breeze but that still does not help. By the time they would start to get morning UV they would be cooking. I test with my UV meter and there's no morning UV at all until around 10am and then it's only 2. Below are the temps on my porch at 10 am. The big cage does get some morning sun but has lots of shade, too. I can check the temps out there all through the day and even up until 5:00 in the evening it's still over 100.
 

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Not to hijack this thead, but I get my setup today or tomorrow from Screameleons. I want to make sure I get the humidity and temps right for a 3-4 month old female panther chameleon. Can someone tell me the exact basking temps, and lower cage temps, as well as humidity percent I should have? I've heard different things, and I'm not sure what the right setting are. Thanks a ton all.
 
I'll never understand how the FL keepers can house their chams outside. The only time I'm able to take mine out is very late in the evening right before dust. I sometimes try to allow them on the screened back porch very early in the morning but it gets hot so fast out there. I live one mile from the beach and normally have a cool ocean breeze but that still does not help. By the time they would start to get morning UV they would be cooking. I test with my UV meter and there's no morning UV at all until around 10am and then it's only 2. Below are the temps on my porch at 10 am. The big cage does get some morning sun but has lots of shade, too. I can check the temps out there all through the day and even up until 5:00 in the evening it's still over 100.

Jannb-I keep a pair of Oustalets, a WC Nosy, and a pair of Veileds outside, under the overhang of the house right outside of the lanai by the pool. They are healthy as can be. No direct sunlight however, but sufficient dappled sunlight. I live 1/4 mile from Tampa Bay here in Pinellas County-which is bordered by the Gulf on one side and the Bay on the other.
 
I'm surprised you can even get 2 UVB through that fine screen :D In the shade up here the UVB is around 30 in the summer, and usually around 200 in the middle of the day. Screen and glass both diminish UVB quite drastically, so that's the issue there.

When I measure UVB through thin mesh, it reduces it by well over half, and through a wider screen, I think 7/8" it reduces it by about 1/3

What I would do is make 1/4 of that room UVB friendly, or build an additional room they can climb over to from there.

As for temps, I'm not sure what panthers can stand in nature, most of the literature is about keeping them indoors under a basking light. If other people are having success in Florida in those temps, then it must be a good combo of the humidity, temp, breeze, etc.

I'd be interested to hear what temps most other Floridians get.
 
I'm south of jannb and the futher south the hotter. I get no UV anywhere outside in the mornings. Later in the day 30+ but too hot for the chams then. Under the porch always seem hotter that outside under a tree and inside a cage it always much hotter that out in the open. I set an empty cage outside on a table in the shade late afternoon and it got to 114 and out in the open under the same tree only 97.
 
Wow you weren't joking:( It is supposed to get in the 60s here in South FL tomorrow or Wednesday. One day its hot and then its cold. I guess i should enjoy it while it lasts. So i don't think i will be taking Clea out much this week:(
 
Wow you weren't joking:( It is supposed to get in the 60s here in South FL tomorrow or Wednesday. One day its hot and then its cold. I guess i should enjoy it while it lasts. So i don't think i will be taking Clea out much this week:(

Not joking. Normally, futher south and closer to the equator it's warmer.
 
I have my 7 month old panther outside right now and Im a little worried about the low tonight. I live in the tampa florida area and have been keeping my guy outside for almost 2 months and hes doing great. However there is a cold front moving through and the low tonight is 64 I believe. Should I be worried?
 
I have my 7 month old panther outside right now and Im a little worried about the low tonight. I live in the tampa florida area and have been keeping my guy outside for almost 2 months and hes doing great. However there is a cold front moving through and the low tonight is 64 I believe. Should I be worried?

Nope-64 is fine. I drag my crew in if it drops below 50.
 
It got to 63.5F last night and today it is getting to 85 degrees F. Perfect temps. and lots of UVB. Itwill not last long because the leaves are changing colors quickily next week we will only have a high of 50 degrees F. I moved here from Bonita Springs and there It was way to hot in direct sun. If I kept the enclosure under and patio overhang I could reduce the uvb and temps. and keep them outside successfully. Florida temps are great, I wish I could move there each winter. :)
 
Jann this thread brings up the question of how do the wild populations of veileds down there make it. Obviously they can take the heat, or maybe only the fittest of the fit make it.

The one example I have to go off of is my veiled. He isn't happy unless his basking temps are over 100F. :eek: That was the only way I could stop him from climbing on the screen directly under his lamp and burning his feet.

I just checked his skin temp...He's been under his lamp for over an hour..111f. He's happy as can be. I've had him set up like this for going on 2 months and no signs of thermal burns or any other noticeable issues.
 
Jann this thread brings up the question of how do the wild populations of veileds down there make it. Obviously they can take the heat, or maybe only the fittest of the fit make it.

The one example I have to go off of is my veiled. He isn't happy unless his basking temps are over 100F. :eek: That was the only way I could stop him from climbing on the screen directly under his lamp and burning his feet.

I just checked his skin temp...He's been under his lamp for over an hour..111f. He's happy as can be. I've had him set up like this for going on 2 months and no signs of thermal burns or any other noticeable issues.

Shannen; First there are not that many wild veileds in FL to my knowledge. I personally only know of one person here on the forums that has one. So maybe it is the fittest of the fit that make it. It's probably also cooler in the shade form all the outside trees and who knows for how long they live for out there.

I use to keep my veileds a bit warmer until I read a post on here, form a very respected member, about how if we lower their temps they may live longer and I sure want to keep mine around for as long as possible. I was also told that to digest their food they only need to be in the very low 80's. I keep my adult male's basking at 88 or 89 and my female's 80 to 81. Your guy doesn't know what's good for him! That's why he need you to take care of him. ;)
 
The lower temps slow down the metabolic rate, same thing withholding food does, thus making them live longer.

I agree that it's up to us to provide what is best for them but in the same breath I believe to some extent each animal is different. From what I've seen and researched I wouldn't dare provide the temps I do for this guy with other veileds. It's what he requires. He does an excellent job of thermal regulating and moving out from under his lamp when he feels he's had enough. In the case of this animal it's really a case of the lesser of 2 evils. Either I provide him with the temps he demands or I constantly treat thermal burns on his feet.

As for the wilds..they are thriving down there. There haven't been any wild imports from Yemen in what over 5 years. All new blood on the market has come from the populations down in South Florida. At this point the only thing keeping them from really "booming" is the fact that they are constantly being collected and sold.

I've done a bit of research on this and the largest supply of wilds came from a breeder in Fort Myers who has/had an out door facility that was broken into in early 2000. An unknown number of veileds were released and they established a large colony in the general vicinity of that breeder's property. Namely a vacant lot across the street full of low lying shrubs. The perfect habitat for baby veileds to flourish. In 2001/02 a study was done that counted over 70 wild visible veileds in this area alone, over the course of 3 days. Since then the population has continued to flourish and reports of them spreading as far South as Naples has been confirmed.

Also during hurricane Andrew (the main source of wild boa's an pythons in the glades) an unknown number of veileds were released.

Really they are so adapt at hiding the real population down there is unknown. But to say there isn't "many" is just not true, as we really do not know their total numbers.

edit: Not to mention the unconfirmed reports of breeders actually releasing veileds into "secret" locations for the sole purpose of supplying themselves with wild specimens.
 
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Pure

Jann this thread brings up the question of how do the wild populations of veileds down there make it. Obviously they can take the heat, or maybe only the fittest of the fit make it.

I believe that the temps in south Florida are far more forgiving than the temps in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Where a warm day in S. Florida is mid 90's, rarely over 98, their native environment can be 10 degrees warmer. Likewise for overnight lows in the winter. It gets colder in their native environment than in S. Florida.

While I have never had a Florida Veiled, I know of hundreds being harvested, if not thousands. Wild populations are very estabished via multi-generational wild breeding, although they now seem to be over-harvested for the pet hobby. Otherwise, they have thrived.
 
I believe that the temps in south Florida are far more forgiving than the temps in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Where a warm day in S. Florida is mid 90's, rarely over 98, their native environment can be 10 degrees warmer. Likewise for overnight lows in the winter. It gets colder in their native environment than in S. Florida.

While I have never had a Florida Veiled, I know of hundreds being harvested, if not thousands. Wild populations are very estabished via multi-generational wild breeding, although they now seem to be over-harvested for the pet hobby. Otherwise, they have thrived.

That's pretty much what I've speculated but not confirmed. I haven't really looked into the actual extremes of their original natural habitat. As honestly veileds hold little interest for me. Thanks for the input Mr Jim.

My interests in them as an invasive species is another story. I've done extensive research on most introduced species in Florida.
 
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