Zeus ate 53 small crickets during one feeding, is this normal?

[tianniccari]

My Chameleon: Zeus

Species: Oustalet's

Sex: Male

Age: 4 months

In our care: 1 1/2 months

Handling:
About 2 times a week

Feeding:
Mainly small crickets and superworms; has also had dubia roaches, butterworms and hornworms

Amount:
Varies day by day; for the first 2 weeks we had him he was only eating 9-15 crickets a day but recently he has been eating anywhere from 20-53 insects a day

Schedule:
1 time a day between 8am-12pm

Gut-loading:
Crickets: Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet, Flukers Cricket Quecher (Calcium fortified), and a mix of veggies (mustard greens, collard greens, kale, and escarole lettuce)
Superworms: mix of veggies (mustard greens, collard greens, kale, and escarole lettuce)

Supplements:
Rep-Cal Calcium without Vit.D3 & Phosphorus - 1 time a day (every feeding)
Rep-Cal Herptivite with Beta Carotene Multivitamins - 2 times a week
Rep-Cal Phosphorus free Calcium with Vit.D3 Ultrafine Powder - 1 time a month

Watering:
MistKing misting system; sprays for 1 minute every 2 hours starting at 7am and ending at 7pm

Fecal Description:
Brown/black, soft but firm, well formed shape

Urate Description:
Mainly white, slight yellow/orange tint

History:
Bought him from FL Chams

Cage Type:
Screen; ReptiBreeze XL (24x24x48)

Lighting:
Nat. Geo Double Deep Dome; which holds a ZooMed 100W Basking Bulb (controlled by a timer; 7am-7pm) and an All Living Things 60W Ceramic Heat Bulb (controlled by the ZooMed HygroTherm)
22" ZooMed ReptiSun UVB T5 HO (controlled by a timer; 7am-7pm)

Temperature:
Range is 70-90 degrees fahrenheit
Overnight lowest is 60 degrees fahrenheit
Temperatures are measured by the ZooMed HygroTherm

Humidity:
Around 70% humidity level
Create and maintain the humidity levels with the Crane Drop Cool Mist Ultrasonic Humidifier
Humidity is measure by the ZooMed HygroTherm

Plants:
We have 1 live Pothos plant as well as fake flowers, leaves, vines & wooden dowels

Placement:
His cage is in a spare bedroom.
In the bedroom there is a ceiling fan, an air purifier and air vents (which are closed); not a high traffic area
The top of the cage is 4ft from the floor

Location:
Northern East Coast (Pennsylvania)

Current Problem:
We're not sure if this is really a problem or not, but we wanted to get other members opinions.
Below is a log of what Zeus has eaten for the last 2 weeks (I have kept track of what he has eaten since 3/8/16, so I can give more dates if needed). When he eats, he rarely leaves insects left in the container. I feel like if I kept adding insects, he would keep eating them. Do chameleons know when they get full? Is it normal that he is eating so many insects or if it was something that we should be worrying about? Should we be giving him more? Should we be giving him less?

4/8 - 38 crickets
4/7 - 53 crickets
4/6 - 20 crickets & 8 superworms
4/5 - 16 crickets 10 superworms
4/4 - 9 crickets & 10 superworms
4/3 - 14 crickets & 10 superworms
4/2 - 24 crickets, 6 dubia roachs & 3 superworms
4/1 - 31 crickets
3/31 - 34 crickets
3/30 - 9 crickets & 10 superworms
3/29 - 20 crickets & 10 superworms
3/28 - 30 crickets & 6 superworms
3/27 - 26 crickets & 5 superworms
3/26 - 30 crickets & 1 butterworm

Any comments or information would be helpful!!
I also attached some pictures of him & a video of him eating from this morning.
The first picture below is from a couple days after we first got him. The 2 after that are from late March.

Zeus

• tianniccari
• Feb 23, 2016

day 1

Zeus sleeping

• tianniccari
• Mar 24, 2016

Zeus

• tianniccari
• Mar 23, 2016

Oustalet's - 4 months old - 3/23/16

 

[oneillchameleons]

It's good to feed your chameleon well in their first few months but 53 is excessive. It really depends on how big the crickets are, whether they are pinheads or a couple weeks old. Chameleons are wild animals, and are driven by a survival instinct. They have no idea when their next meal will be, so they will take any opportunity to eat. Some will stop when they're full, some won't.
I tend to feed about 15-20 crickets of this size:

_____

Until they are about 5-6 months old, then I reduce feedings to every other day. The other thing I noticed is you are gutloading with greens that are quite high in Oxalates. Collard, kale, etc should be rotated in and out of the gutload along with carrots, apples, summer squash, sweet potato etc.

 

[tianniccari]

@oneillchameleons - Yeah, we thought 53 was a little excessive as well, that's why we posted on here. But the crickets are small ones from PetSmart, I'm not exactly sure about the age of them. I cannot see your picture on my computer. But I think we'll put him on a limit of 20 crickets a day and see how that works out. And thanks for the information about the gut-loading, I just took the information from this caresheet (https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/) and tried to follow it. We were using apples, oranges, mangos and carrots before, we just haven't had a chance to go out and get some more.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

How big are the crickets? You said they are "small" but how small is small? It's probably time to step up to the next size cricket if he is wanting to eat 53. That is WAAYYY too many. They grow a lot when they are young, sure, but eating too much can cause problems just as it can in any animal.

IMHO, the days where he eats 5, 6, 8, and 10 superworms.... That is also excessive. Most people and successful cham keepers will tell you to limit the hard-shelled insects to only a few a day, like 1, 2, maybe 3 a day. The hard chitin exoskeleton, too much, can be bad for the digestive tract and can even cause impactions. I will by no means tell you what to feed your own pet - but what they say is recommended for chameleons, is only a couple superworms a day, and not daily. Best to have a staple diet of either crickets or roaches, and throw lots of other insect varieties in as much as you can for their added nutritional benefit.

 

[gotwqqd]

If you want to make accurate assessments
Weigh the feeders

 

[radstusky]

I think you can definitely feed him a bit larger crickets. It's good he's a healthy eater. I have an oustalet/panther hybrid about the same size, and I have to say I don't feed him nearly as much as you are. Maybe I should be feeding more! I would suggest you add some hornworms, black soldier fly larvae and blue bottle flies to the mix. He'll love those. For bb flies you can feed both the flies and the maggots.

 

[tianniccari]

@trickedoutbiker - I'll try to take a picture of the crickets compared to something so you guys can see the size. Maybe we'll have to start ordering them online because the PetSmart near us sells only small and large ones and I think the large are still a little too big for him to eat. Does anyone know a good website for crickets? & that's good to know about the superworms, we'll cut back on many he gets a day. We'll limit it to 2 a day once or twice a week. Crickets are by far his favorite, so that is his main meal. We have offered roaches, hornworms, wax worm and butterworms which he seemed to enjoy, but no where near as much as the crickets. What would be some other good insects to give him? Where can I get them?

@gotwqqd - Weigh the crickets to make an accurate assessment for how big they are?

@radstusky - We will look into getting bigger ones but unfortunately we'd have to order them online because the PetSmart near us only sells small and large crickets and I think the large ones are still a little too big for him to be eat. That seems like it would be an amazing chameleon, our other chameleon is a Panther. We were offering him hornworms but unfortunately we ran out, so we have to order some more. But where do you get black solider fly larvae and blue bottle flies? It'd be nice to give him a larger variety of insects.

 

[gotwqqd]

Remember this
The smaller the feeder(compared to same feeder) the less amount of nutrients it gives by weight

Larger = less exoskeleton/gr.

My chameleon is about six months old and eats a couple of mature dubia(refrain from lecture) and then a few smaller and worm type feeder

 

[trickedoutbiker]

But where do you get black solider fly larvae and blue bottle flies? It'd be nice to give him a larger variety of insects.

For the blue bottle flies, go to the site sponsor, Mantisplace.com. They sell blue bottle flies, as well as house flies and false stable flies. Blue bottles are the largest, then the houseflies, then the false stable flies. Houseflies are deff cheaper and would probably be the best bet for your chameleon, and if he takes a liking to them, get the Blue Bottle Flies next time. As for the Black Soldier Fly larvae.... you can get those many places. You can order from Phoenixworm.com, or you can get them on Ebay or on Amazon for cheaper. Josh's Frogs also sells them. A few members here do as well from time to time, just check the CHAMELEON FOOD and CHAMELEON SUPPLIES sections of the forums.

Maybe we'll have to start ordering them online because the PetSmart near us sells only small and large ones and I think the large are still a little too big for him to eat. Does anyone know a good website for crickets?

As for a website, I'm not sure. But I do know this... Petsmart sells crickets for 13 cents a piece for the small, and 14 cents a piece for the large..... A ripoff. Their biggest competitor Petco sells crickets for 15 cents a piece, another big ripoff. What I do..... there are two bait shops near me that sell live crickets. One sells crickets for 4 cents a piece, any size, and the other sells crickets for 5 cents a piece, any size. I always get em for 4 cents because they are always in stock, and if the one place was to ever run out, I could go to the other place. Check your local area for any bait shops that sell fishing tackle and live bait. Lots of people who fish, use red worms and earthworms and wax worms and such.... but lots of people use crickets as well. So if you find a bait shop that sells live bait, you've probably hit gold and I can 99.9% assure you they will be cheaper. And you will be supporting a local business instead of the chain giants that don't much care for their animals anyways.

 

[radstusky]

You can get BB flies, phoenix worms (aka black soldier flies), and a lot of other bugs from Nick Barta. You can email him at: [email protected]
There's also mantisplace.com
and rainbowmealworms.net (the code WORMLOVE might just get you 10% off here)