Young Veiled not eating

[Yeahna]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting to get a bit worried about my little man Miso.
He has been doing really well up until the last week where his eating has slowed down dramatically.
I usually feed 10-12 small crickets and most would get eaten, not i am finding 8/10 alive every evening still.
Its not like he cant find them, often he will be right next to them or walk straight over them when he goes on his little adventures. He is just not interested.
I got some meal worms to mix up his diet a bit, which he was thrilled with for a couple of days.
Now he is no longer interested.
His poop and urates look fine, but are extremely small, which obviously indicates he isn't eating much.
Any advice is much appreciated.


Your Chameleon

• Species: Veiled Chameleon
• Sex: male
• Age: 4 months
• Been in my care for 2 months

• Handling
  • I only have handled him on rare occasions. A couple time ive put my finger out and he will climb on and walk up my shoulder and ill put him back.
• Feeding
  • Feeding: 8-10 small crickets per morning
  • Gut loading: carrots, oranges, other greens
• Supplements
  • Reptile one calcium - every feeding
  • Reptile one calcium with D3 - once a fortnight
  • Vitamin A - once a month
• Watering
  • Mist: Exo Terra Monsoon - 2 nozzles
    • 8am, 9pm, 1am, 4am, for 2 minutes
  • Fogger: ReptiFogger
    • 1am to 6am - turns on and off to keep humidity at desired level
  • Dripper: Homemade. Its just a empty drink bottle with a pin prick in the side that drips onto a large leaf - very accesable to where he spends most of his time
  • Drinking: i have never seen him drink
• Fecal Description
  • Urate: White and moist - VERY SMALL
  • Poop: Moist - VERY SMALL
  • I compared the droppings to pics in one of the forums on this site
  • Parasites: Chameleon has not been tested for parasite

Cage Info:

• Cage Type
  • Glass sides, screen top - 120x60x100cm
• Lighting
  • UVB: Get your pet right LED UVB Bar 7.0 - 9 watt
  • Schedule: 7am - 7pm
• Temperature
  • Heat Lamp: Dome Reflector Ceramic Suit Up To 100w E27 Screw Fitting 22cm
  • Bulb: Ceramic heat emitter - 75 watt
  • I used to use a daylight heat bulb but found it wasnt warming the enclosure sufficiently
  • I measure basking temp with a laser temp gun and ambient with a temp probe
  • basking is about 30 degrees (7am-7pm)
  • ambient is about 23 degrees in the day and 15 at night (heat emitter will come back on if temp drops past 13 at night emitter will come back on until temp reaches a max of 18 - as there is no light)
• Humidity
  • Measure humidity with probe
  • Day time is about 50-60%
  • Night time is 90-100%
  • I turn fan on in the morning over top of enclosure which brings the humidity down a bit quicker for about 1 hour
  • Create humidity using fogger and mister
• Plants
  • Umbrella tree
  • Golden Pothos
  • Devils Ivy
  • Fake plants
• Placement
  • Enclosure is in spare room of house - gets nearly no traffic at all
  • The enclosure is on a stand that is also 120 cm tall - so the top of enclosure stands 220 from ground
  • No vents, fan overhead which only comes on when i put it on to increase airflow in enclosure

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. The only part of your husbandry that sticks out to me is you aren’t giving a multivitamin and the vitamin A. I read your previous post about the eye problem and understand why you added the vitamin A. However, if you use a good multivitamin like Reptivite or Repashy calcium plus LoD, it contains preformed vitamin A and there’s no need to give any separately. Either would be given for one feeding every other week, alternating with the calcium with D3. If you use the Repashy or get the ReptiVite with D3, you can eliminate giving the separate D3 too.
Is there a plastic cover over your uvb light? Can you post some pics of your enclosure and include pics of the lights?
Humidity is a tad high. Should be between 30-50% during the day. Maybe reduce the amount of time you use the dripper to bring it down or run the fan an extra time or two.
While incorrect supplementation or wrong uvb would cause a reduced appetite, so would parasites. I definitely suggest getting a fecal check and a veterinary wellness visit too.

 

[Beman]

Hi there. can you post a pic of the entire enclosure including the lights? Also I am not familar with your UVB option. If it is an LED option for UVB these have not been proven out within the hobby. This could very well be the cause in the decline. If the output is far to high or far to low.

 

[kinyonga]

What’s the form of vitamin A? PrEformed or prOformed?
You're still not using a vitamin powder as was already mentioned by @MissSkittles .

 

[kinyonga]

You said…“UVB: Get your pet right LED UVB Bar 7.0 - 9 watt”…the UVB light should have no plastic or glass cover between the chameleon and the bulb. The most recommended UVB lights are the long linear tube Reprisun 5.0 or the Arcadia 6% long linear tube light.

You said …”Heat Lamp: Dome Reflector Ceramic Suit Up To 100w E27 Screw Fitting 22cm”…“Bulb: Ceramic heat emitter - 75 watt”…to provide a basking area, the best option is the regular household incandescent bulb of a wattage that produces a basking temperature of 80F or just slightly higher.

You said…”basking is about 30 degrees”…see my previous statement.

You said you use some fake plants…I would recommend getting rid of them asap. If your chameleon ingests any, it could become impacted.

For gutloading and feeding the crickets, I recommend using a wide assortment of greens such as collards, kale, endive, dandelion greens, mustard greens, etc and veggies such as carrots, squash, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, zucchini, etc. and a small amount of apples, pears, berries, etc.

 

[Yeahna]

Hi. The only part of your husbandry that sticks out to me is you aren’t giving a multivitamin and the vitamin A. I read your previous post about the eye problem and understand why you added the vitamin A. However, if you use a good multivitamin like Reptivite or Repashy calcium plus LoD, it contains preformed vitamin A and there’s no need to give any separately. Either would be given for one feeding every other week, alternating with the calcium with D3. If you use the Repashy or get the ReptiVite with D3, you can eliminate giving the separate D3 too.
Is there a plastic cover over your uvb light? Can you post some pics of your enclosure and include pics of the lights?
Humidity is a tad high. Should be between 30-50% during the day. Maybe reduce the amount of time you use the dripper to bring it down or run the fan an extra time or two.
While incorrect supplementation or wrong uvb would cause a reduced appetite, so would parasites. I definitely suggest getting a fecal check and a veterinary wellness visit too.

Hello,
thanks once again for your advice.

I mistakenly said vitamin A, I actually give him a the ExoTerra Multivitamin once a month.

I'll try bring the humidity down during the day.

Here is specs for UVB and pics of lights:

• The most energy-efficient way to provide UVB – low wattage, high output!
• Made with high-precision Japanese LEDs, the best in the world
• Combines UVB, UVA, and full visible spectrum lighting which is ideal for bio-active enclosures.
• Essential to help prevent health complications such as Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD)

These LED Bars include a 30cm link cable enabling multiple units to be connected and run through a single power source.
UVB
UVB wavelengths are what allows reptiles to produce vitamin D3. However, only certain UVB wavelengths (from 290-315nm) help reptiles synthesize Vitamin D3. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 295nm to 320nm.
UVA
UVA is an important part of reptile vision, which helps them regulate behaviours such as feeding, mating and general activity. A small portion of UVA wavelengths (from 320nm-335nm) also help regulate Vitamin D3 production. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 320nm to 400nm.
VISIBLE LIGHT
Visible light is extremely important for all reptiles, even nocturnal species. The amount of visible light a bulb emits is measured on a temperature scale corresponding to the warmth of the light relative to colour and is measured in units of Kelvin (K). Natural sun light has a Kelvin temperature between 4,500 and 7,000K. The Get Your Pet Right UVB Lamps emit a colour temperature of 6500K and a CRI (colour rendering index) of 96, allowing for the most naturalistic artificial light to be provided to your reptile or amphibian .

• 7% is suitable rainforest/ occasional basking species such as Green Tree Frogs, Boyd’s Forest Dragons, Carpet and Childrens pythons

Here is a pic of his current enclosure.

Obviously not ideal, but I am confident that he has access to water, hiding places, his food, and safe distance for basking and UVB.
As I have a glass enclosure, I had to improvise a bit at the time I got him. However, I've just made two of these corner pieces to revamp his habitat and get around the limitations of glass walls. Just putting some final pond safe sealant and they (and the plants) will be going in (hopefully) this weekend. I wanted these to be removable as I am moving houses in about 6 months and wanted to go the full bioactive setup after i am settled.

 

[Yeahna]

Hi there. can you post a pic of the entire enclosure including the lights? Also I am not familar with your UVB option. If it is an LED option for UVB these have not been proven out within the hobby. This could very well be the cause in the decline. If the output is far to high or far to low.

Hello,
Posted below with specs.

 

[Yeahna]

You said…“UVB: Get your pet right LED UVB Bar 7.0 - 9 watt”…the UVB light should have no plastic or glass cover between the chameleon and the bulb. The most recommended UVB lights are the long linear tube Reprisun 5.0 or the Arcadia 6% long linear tube light.

You said …”Heat Lamp: Dome Reflector Ceramic Suit Up To 100w E27 Screw Fitting 22cm”…“Bulb: Ceramic heat emitter - 75 watt”…to provide a basking area, the best option is the regular household incandescent bulb of a wattage that produces a basking temperature of 80F or just slightly higher.

You said…”basking is about 30 degrees”…see my previous statement.

You said you use some fake plants…I would recommend getting rid of them asap. If your chameleon ingests any, it could become impacted.

For gutloading and feeding the crickets, I recommend using a wide assortment of greens such as collards, kale, endive, dandelion greens, mustard greens, etc and veggies such as carrots, squash, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, zucchini, etc. and a small amount of apples, pears, berries, etc.

Hello,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

UVB
I don't believe there is any plastic or glass cover between the cham and bulb. See pic below.
I actually started using the incandescent bulb, but when the weather started to get colder, i increased from 50-75-100 watt and found that him basking spot was still not getting warm enough.
So i swapped to the ceramic heater. What would you recommend i do in that case? The incandescent bulbs worked fine before the cold snap!

Basking
I have been basing all my temp and humidity decisions as per cham academy veiled care sheet.
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
So i should reduce the heat a bit in his basking spot and swap back to incandescent?

Plants
As per my previous message to skittles the enclosure is on standby for an overhaul, all real plants and more suitable branches are on standby, just got to apply a couple final coats of pond sealent then good to go.

Gutloading
I will increase the variety in gutloading.

 

[Yeahna]

Hi there. can you post a pic of the entire enclosure including the lights? Also I am not familar with your UVB option. If it is an LED option for UVB these have not been proven out within the hobby. This could very well be the cause in the decline. If the output is far to high or far to low.

Done

 

[Yeahna]

What’s the form of vitamin A? PrEformed or prOformed?
You're still not using a vitamin powder as was already mentioned by @MissSkittles .

I mistakenly said vitamin A, I actually give him the ExoTerra Multivitamin once a month, which has vitamin A in it.

 

[kinyonga]

I mistakenly said vitamin A, I actually give him the ExoTerra Multivitamin once a month, which has vitamin A in it.

There’s a difference between vitamin A from beta carotene (prOformed) and vitamin A from a retinol source (prEformed). They need the retinol source because it is thought that they cannot convert the beta carotene to the prEformed type that they can use. Exo Terra has beta carotene in it. That’s why I asked you earlier about the form of vitamin A in your vitamin powder.

 

[Yeahna]

There’s a difference between vitamin A from beta carotene (prOformed) and vitamin A from a retinol source (prEformed). They need the retinol source because it is thought that they cannot convert the beta carotene to the prEformed type that they can use. Exo Terra has beta carotene in it. That’s why I asked you earlier about the form of vitamin A in your vitamin powder.

Could you recommend a retinol source I can get online to include in his diet? I'm afraid the options in local pet shops where i live are somewhat limited in their range.

There’s a difference between vitamin A from beta carotene (prOformed) and vitamin A from a retinol source (prEformed). They need the retinol source because it is thought that they cannot convert the beta carotene to the prEformed type that they can use. Exo Terra has beta carotene in it. That’s why I asked you earlier about the form of vitamin A in your vitamin powder.

 

[kinyonga]

Most people use this one…but note…it has D3 in it…so..we recommend that you dust the insects lightly at each feeding except for 2 feedings a month with a phos free calcium powder and on those two days (which should be two weeks apart) we dust lightly with the Reptivite vitamin powder that has D3 in it Shown in the link below. (So, on the 1st and 15th of each month, use the vitamin powder and on all other feedings dust just with the phos free calcium powder lightly.)
https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-Reptivite-Vitamin-8-Ounce/dp/B002GC4B6O?th=1

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m really not at all knowledgeable about LED uvb so can’t provide any feedback if what you have is correct or not.
As @kinyonga has said, you do need to replace your artificial plants with real ones. I understand you’ll be moving and have plans for improvements. For now, if you can find a nice full pothos (aka devil’s ivy) or two, those would be great. They grow pretty fast and before you know it you‘ll have beautiful lush vines to spread and wrap through your branches.
@kinyonga is helping you with your supplements and other items.
That just leaves getting a fecal check for parasites. I wouldn’t wait too long. Little ones can’t go too long not eating enough.

 

[Yeahna]

Most people use this one…but note…it has D3 in it…so..we recommend that you dust the insects lightly at each feeding except for 2 feedings a month with a phos free calcium powder and on those two days (which should be two weeks apart) we dust lightly with the Reptivite vitamin powder that has D3 in it Shown in the link below. (So, on the 1st and 15th of each month, use the vitamin powder and on all other feedings dust just with the phos free calcium powder lightly.)
https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-Reptivite-Vitamin-8-Ounce/dp/B002GC4B6O?th=1

Thanks ill order this right now.

 

[Yeahna]

I’m really not at all knowledgeable about LED uvb so can’t provide any feedback if what you have is correct or not.
As @kinyonga has said, you do need to replace your artificial plants with real ones. I understand you’ll be moving and have plans for improvements. For now, if you can find a nice full pothos (aka devil’s ivy) or two, those would be great. They grow pretty fast and before you know it you‘ll have beautiful lush vines to spread and wrap through your branches.
@kinyonga is helping you with your supplements and other items.
That just leaves getting a fecal check for parasites. I wouldn’t wait too long. Little ones can’t go too long not eating enough.

I have contacted a vet today. Thanks for your help!
Yes I have 3 various types of pothos, a nice schefflera and some other planti forget the name ready to go in on Monday.

 

[MissSkittles]

I have contacted a vet today. Thanks for your help!
Yes I have 3 various types of pothos, a nice schefflera and some other planti forget the name ready to go in on Monday.

If you haven’t already, do make sure to wash the leaves to remove any possible pesticide or other chemicals.
Do let us know what the vet finds.

 

[Beman]

So unless you have a solarmeter 6.5 to test out that uvb led option. I would not use it. These just have not been studied enough to know long term effects or effectiveness.

The standard recommended UVB for chameleons is a T5HO fixture and a 5.0 reptisun bulb or a 6% arcadia bulb. Either one of these sitting on top of the cage then measure 8-9 inches to the basking branches to put the cham in an approximate 3 UVI zone.

3 UVI is considered the recommended level. Going up to a max exposure of 6UVI. Anything above 6 pushes natural exposure limits. Read this to understand more https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-replicating-the-sun/

This entire husbandry program is really good. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

 

[Yeahna]

So unless you have a solarmeter 6.5 to test out that uvb led option. I would not use it. These just have not been studied enough to know long term effects or effectiveness.

The standard recommended UVB for chameleons is a T5HO fixture and a 5.0 reptisun bulb or a 6% arcadia bulb. Either one of these sitting on top of the cage then measure 8-9 inches to the basking branches to put the cham in an approximate 3 UVI zone.

3 UVI is considered the recommended level. Going up to a max exposure of 6UVI. Anything above 6 pushes natural exposure limits. Read this to understand more https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-replicating-the-sun/

This entire husbandry program is really good. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Hello,
Sorry, I just saw this. Thanks for the advice and I will purchase one tonight.