xray - are there eggs here?

[sandrachameleon]

I'm worried my chameleon has not laid all the eggs she may have in her.
See previous thread for background:https://www.chameleonforums.com/fewer-eggs-than-expected-22442/#post197222

Is there anyone with experience looking at panther chameleon x-rays who could suggest whether or not there appear to be eggs in her?

 

[kenya]

I am not claiming to be terribly experienced, but eggs are usually very obvious in xrays. Here is what I saw.

 

[kinyonga]

I think there are some eggs there...but I'm no expert at reading x-rays. Eggs are supposed to be in a row/line and oval while follicles are round and in a mass somewhat like grapes.

Hope you get your chameleon through this okay....my fingers are crossed!

 

[chameleon guy]

Has she been wandering the bottom of her cage more often. Because if she has then set up a nesting box asap.

 

[desultadox]

Has she been wandering the bottom of her cage more often. Because if she has then set up a nesting box asap.

 

[merumontanus]

I'm worried my chameleon has not laid all the eggs she may have in her.
See previous thread for background:https://www.chameleonforums.com/fewer-eggs-than-expected-22442/#post197222

Is there anyone with experience looking at panther chameleon x-rays who could suggest whether or not there appear to be eggs in her?

I don't have experience looking at pardalis X-Rays, but I have seen those of late-term calyptratus and other iguanids and I say she is most definitely carrying eggs. How did the veterinarian interpret the images??? Did he/she take any lateral x-rays? Sometimes it's easier to see calcified eggs from that angle.

 

[Malicious]

Some just read better then others mate...hehe...

 

[PardalisGirl]

I see eggs too....

I see a number of eggs too in the upper portion of the first x-ray where Kenya did the red graphic on her post. I have seen eggs in person on an x-ray. The positioning makes me think that she laid only the eggs from one string and not the other. They have two separate strings of eggs. It looks like the eggs are only on one side of the body in the x-ray. Sixteen eggs or so would not be totally out of normal. I've had females lay a lower number like that on occasion.

Is it possible that one string developed faster and was ready to be laid and the other was not? I don't know the answer to that one. The good news is that she is not retaining a whole bunch of them. This number of eggs is not putting pressure on organs.

If she looks healthy I would wait a few more days, keep her hydrated and feed her if she eats. Put her in the laying bin again for a day every other day and see if she will dig again. Smart thing you did in posting those x-rays. Is your regular vet available again?

 

[Clifford]

Thank you everyone for your input and well wishes.

The laying bin is in her normal cage. It takes up the entire (well, 99%) of the bottom of the cage. I do this with all my females, so that I dont have to move them when laying time comes. I am pretty good at reading my girls, and the laying bin is in and available ahead of time.

This particular female had until now been very consistent in her laying. Which was why her leaving only 8 eggs as oppossed to her normal 18-20 and her "still fat" look had me worried.

The emergency vet had no reptile experience and frankly didnt know one way or the other (nor did I) whether the xray showed eggs or not. I felt it was good to get an xray anyhow, in case someone on this forum or my regular vet could determine it.

Consensus seems to be that there are indeed eggs still in her.

Hopefully, my pretty little chameleon is laying those other eggs today and will be expecting a big fat juicy butterworm as a reward. But if not, I have an appointment with my regular vet first thing tomorrow morning. Perhaps there is a surgical solution or some other thing that can be done. (thank goodness I have saved some cash for vet emergencies! the emergency vet last night was $400 alone!)

I am doing what I can, but never the less feel entirely helpless.
I've never lost a chameleon to anything but age, and at not even yet three years old this chameleon should be with me for years yet. I am not prepared or willing to accept anything else! But denial only takes one so far. The truth is she may not make it.

I'll let you know.

(sent on behalf of Sandra)

 

[dodolah]

i don't know if you need anymore consensus..
But, i immediately spot one in the same area Kenya spotted.

 

[kenya]

As Catherine said, there appears to be a string of eggs on that side of the body. I pointed out the most obvious one, but if you look closely, there appears to be a string of pearls with the egg I highlighted being sort of in the middle of it. Be patient- she may not have developed them as fast as the other ovarian bundle. I have a veiled that laid her eggs perfectly...but she gestated for two full months and never had a drop in health. Your girl could just be slightly different from the norm and develops her eggs slower. If her health starts to deteriorate at all, get her to your herp vet to have the eggs removed. They don't look very calcified yet, though...they would be more obvious if they were, I think. That is what makes me think that she is just being slow to develop that side.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thanks everyone! (and special thanks J for your support earlier today during my boo-hoo moment)
I came home to hearing digging today. I am overjoyed and extremely hopefull that this means she's going to lay the rest of the eggs.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Good deal Sandra

I'm relieved for her and for you too. The not knowing is a killer. This has been a good thread. Very informative for everyone.

 

[millionsofchameleons]

i dont read either but i have taken alot of xrays. also not chameleon xrays but..... i dont think they are eggs. i believe the part that was circled is the intestine and you are looking at it in such an angle so your looking more though the intestine then across it making look like a round object. second everything inside there looks the same density (poo and organs) leading me to believe no eggs due to that as well. third the round thing seen is only seen on the lateral and not the pa(posterior to anterior) view. but i would trust a dr. before anything.


nevermind i just read she is digging.

 

[sandrachameleon]

She was just fooling around in there - no eggs laid.

millionsofchameleons, you may be right. Vet did more xrays, and Vet feels that there arent any eggs ready for laying in her - not fully formed yet.

 

[leid]

I actually dissect lizard specimens and count egg clutches for my biology research project. I agree there looks like eggs, but they're not big enough yet to be laid. She doesn't appear to be extremely gravid/bulky in the lower abdomen region either, but the circular patterns -do- indicate there are eggs, according to lizard anatomy, anyway. The first picture on -our- left, it appears she has three eggs. This is where the other two members pointed out their indication of the eggs.

 

[ChrisnLisa]

Hi Sandra-

Sorry your girl seems to be having a tough time. In my opinion, if she is hydrated, still has a good grip, and is overall healthy, I would give her some time. We recently had an issue with a female that was misdiagnosed with follicular stasis. It appears it just took longer for her eggs to develop than normal. I was giving her liquid calcium orally twice a day, and I believe that helped the situation a lot. I would ask your vet if he wouldn't mind doing that for you. Give this a read, https://www.chameleonforums.com/follicular-stasis-help-19666/ , it might be beneficial to you in some way. Good luck!

Lisa