Wild caught tribulations

[K9Luvn]

Make me mad to see someone let the animal get in that kind of condition over a flippin dollar.

i couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for all you do to help them

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I understand your frustations. I cant look at the wc ads sometimes. When I do I have to prepare myself first for what Im going to probably see. Occasionally we get some good imports come in. Like last yr a really nice group of Crested chams came in. They all looked better than the ones Ive seen this yr. The worst looking ones last yr were better than the best this yr. I believe part of the problem this yr is they were held far too long at the collection sites/expoerters facilities in their home countries. With the ban being enacted they had to hold them too long before they were allowed to export.

I have seen some really nice oustalets lately. They looked really good for wc's but of course those are coming from Maddy not from Tanzania or Cameroon. I saw some gracilis on KS that looked good those usually come in on deaths door.

The problem with the wc's is the exporters and collectors dont care if they suffer the losses they do. The prices they pay the collectors for the chams are pennies and they dont seem to want to change the way the system is run. The chams are treated as throw aways that can be replaced easily for next to nothing. If we could change the attitude of the exporters and make them see that they need to preserve the natural resources they have avail to them we would see a change. We've seen a change in the Maddy exports over the yrs. In the early and mid '90's we saw some horrible wc's coming in from Maddy. Now most of the wc's I see coming in are in decent salvagable shape for the most part. That happened because we educated the ppl and the exporters and showed them that their animals were a valuable resource to be farmed and controled for future generations. We need to see some of the same changes in the African exporters.

If we stopped all exports coming into the US that still wouldnt stop the collection and reptile trade in Tanz & Cameroon. We need to educate and show them that doing things the right way will actually make them more profitable and sustain the species for future generations to enjoy and make a living off of.

 

[ataraxia]

If we stopped all exports coming into the US that still wouldnt stop the collection and reptile trade in Tanz & Cameroon. We need to educate and show them that doing things the right way will actually make them more profitable and sustain the species for future generations to enjoy and make a living off of.

I do agree with everythiing you stated..

I would like to see that country not export a single chameleon to any country

If this was regulated i would have different feelings but as it sits....it should be closed.

 

[Hoj]

So very sad, but very nice to see you do what you can for these wonderfull animals. Great Job!!!

 

[ataraxia]

I commend your way of thinking. Good luck with your new kiddies may they make a smooth acclimation.


The Starfish Story
Original Story by: Loren Eisley

One day a man was walking along the beach when he noticed
a boy picking something up and gently throwing it into the ocean.
Approaching the boy, he asked, What are you doing?
The youth replied, Throwing starfish back into the ocean.
The surf is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them back, they'll die.
Son,the man said, don't you realize there are miles and miles of beach and hundreds of starfish?
You can't make a difference!
After listening politely, the boy bent down, picked up another starfish,
and threw it back into the surf. Then, smiling at the man, he said
I made a difference for that one.

Thank you. Since i was young to even now as an adult. That story is me all over.

Oh my gosh. I wish I had the vet and money to talk some of the wild caughts. Those cresteds were calling my name, I want a pair so badly. It's sad to see them in that condition, I hope they all thrive and live for you.

I would love to see them survive. Its all about trying

Wow...some of those Montiums are in really terrible shape! Good luck bringing them around and keep us updated on their progress! I might be able to offer a home to some Montiums down the road a little if they pull through...

Thank you.

A real shame but true. Unfortunately for every Wc that makes it many others do not In this hobby some call it a necessary evil since we need WCs for genetic diversity.I believe we should all push to improve the standards through which many of these animals are brought in and that pet stores should not be allowed to bring in WC, only specialized importers who actually know how to take care of them.
On a side note, did you get them directly from an importer or from pet stores?

If i bought these from pet stores i would be broke

John, thank you for giving these guys a second chance at life. Last year my vet took in some chams like this several times and was able to save some of them. You might find his blog about it interesting. http://www.ivanalfonso.com/2011/09/the-chameleon-rehabilitation-experience/

James, I really liked your little story.

Thank you jann. I have read his blog. Its great he did what he did. Where he failed though was not treating the animals right out of the gate. Treat first ask questions later is the philosophy on wild caughts. Time is of the essence.

i couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for all you do to help them

Thank you.

 

[ataraxia]

So very sad, but very nice to see you do what you can for these wonderfull animals. Great Job!!!

Thank you

 

[KellysChameleons]

you are a wonderful person to try to help these poor beautiful animals...it really is a horrible thing to see the condition some of the wc arrive in, and as sad as it seems, they're not viewed as the precious life that they all are, but only as a way to make another dollar

 

[Carlton]

I've thought about this so often over the years and keep coming to the idea that the only way to "favor" one exporter/importer over another is to reward them in some way for providing healthier animals. It is one thing to attempt to limit the market by boycotting retail dealers, but if the poor wcs are still cheap to buy they won't really care about the small pressure we as buyers try to put on them. And, the wholesalers also won't feel enough of a pinch because again, the animals are so cheap for them to provide.

The way to really stop import/export is to petition CITES nations or try to influence their animals' committees to change the trade status of specific species...and that takes a lot of time and a lot of research into the condition of the wild populations. Individual member nations can choose not to permit importation of a species.

When I was working with Malaysian leaf frogs a small group of us did try to influence the exporters by working with one specific source who did care for them well. We tried to create a working group that would pay a premium for frogs of specific age, sex, and condition. It worked to a small degree. It could be that somehow hobbyists need to offer a higher price for animals that were in good condition with right of refusal.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

When I was working with Malaysian leaf frogs a small group of us did try to influence the exporters by working with one specific source who did care for them well. We tried to create a working group that would pay a premium for frogs of specific age, sex, and condition. It worked to a small degree. It could be that somehow hobbyists need to offer a higher price for animals that were in good condition with right of refusal.[/QUOTE]

Now thats a good suggestion. If we could educate the exporters and they could make more profit by providing better care. That would benefit not only the hobbyist but also the exporter and the animals also. Thats a win win for everyone involved! Unfortunately, most of us dont have the direct line to communicate our concerns to the exporters directly.

 

[Carlton]

Now thats a good suggestion. If we could educate the exporters and they could make more profit by providing better care. That would benefit not only the hobbyist but also the exporter and the animals also. Thats a win win for everyone involved! Unfortunately, most of us dont have the direct line to communicate our concerns to the exporters directly.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not, but we CAN make our wishes known to wholesalers and dealers! Instead of rewarding their attempts to undercut each other by providing the cheapest animals to the public we should be willing to pay more for the best ones. I know I am so sick of seeing ads for "______ chams CHEAP!" or those pleas from buyers "____cham wanted, won't pay more than $50". If you can't afford to pay for good treatment you can't afford a cham, and the species can't afford YOU.

 

[CamiGirl89]

Keep it up, Ataraxia. This is a very influential story. These animals are unable to help themselves, and are totally at the mercy of whatever human grabs them off of their warm, sunlit vine. Something definately needs to be done about this, because none of God's creatures should be treated as an item used strictly for profit. Each animal presented to us should be seen with some respect: The chicken for its ability to provide us with daily eggs, or feed a family for dinner. Cows for their milk or their ability to give a group of people food for several days. Dogs for their loyalty and protection, etc. No animal should be looked down upon or sold in this way, and I greatly respect your contribution to helping something that can not help its self. I am sure that if those little ones could thank you, they wouldn't know where to start. Glad they found such a good person!

 

[ataraxia]

you are a wonderful person to try to help these poor beautiful animals...it really is a horrible thing to see the condition some of the wc arrive in, and as sad as it seems, they're not viewed as the precious life that they all are, but only as a way to make another dollar

Thank you.

Keep it up, Ataraxia. This is a very influential story. These animals are unable to help themselves, and are totally at the mercy of whatever human grabs them off of their warm, sunlit vine. Something definately needs to be done about this, because none of God's creatures should be treated as an item used strictly for profit. Each animal presented to us should be seen with some respect: The chicken for its ability to provide us with daily eggs, or feed a family for dinner. Cows for their milk or their ability to give a group of people food for several days. Dogs for their loyalty and protection, etc. No animal should be looked down upon or sold in this way, and I greatly respect your contribution to helping something that can not help its self. I am sure that if those little ones could thank you, they wouldn't know where to start. Glad they found such a good person!

Thank you. I wish there was a way we could change things.