Why would we have babies dying??

[Johnny84]

Good Morning Everyone....

We have had about 20 of our Panther Chameleon Eggs hatch since May 18th and about a little more than half of them have died

We follow everything correctly on raising these lil guys! We were told we will lose a few out of 50 eggs, but we are about 50/50 on percentage of healthy to ones that die after hatching. I didnt want to ask this question because I dont want any of you to think we are not doing this correctly or we are new to them, but we have had chameleons for a long time..

I just want to see if you folks out there have any suggestions...

Any info could be great!

Thanks!

 

[camimom]

how much do you mist?
what is the basking temp?
UVB bulb type?
how old were the parents when they bred?
how long did the eggs incubate for?
at what temp did they incubate for?

 

[SSimsswiSS]

We follow everything correctly on raising these lil guys! We were told we will lose a few out of 50 eggs, but we are about 50/50 on percentage of healthy to ones that die after hatching.

Thanks!

So they hatched on there own with no help? Babies need lower temps (80) and opportunity to drink water several times a day, without keeping them overly wet. Too wet and too hot are the most common killers. IMHO of course.

 

[Johnny84]

how much do you mist?
what is the basking temp?
UVB bulb type?
how old were the parents when they bred?
how long did the eggs incubate for?
at what temp did they incubate for?

my wife is lightly misting them 3-4 times a day
the basking temp stays around 80-81
the uv bulb type is zoomed 5.0
the parents were 1 yr and 1 & half years
we have 2 clutches: the first clutch was laid in october and the second in november
their incubation temp was averaged at 74

 

[camimom]

Did it ever hit a high temp during incubating?

what blood lines did the parents come from?

 

[Johnny84]

So they hatched on there own with no help? Babies need lower temps (80) and opportunity to drink water several times a day, without keeping them overly wet. Too wet and too hot are the most common killers. IMHO of course.

they all have hatched on their own so far with no help... their temps stay between 79-81 at the very highest before I will shut off the basking light to cool it down... Im only misting them enough to keep the humidity levels from being too dry and making sure they are getting a drink, which they do every time I mist...

we started them out in a rubbermaid setup and when we noticed some werent doing great and others had died we moved them into our exoterra glass terrarium with live plants as well as fake and a ton of climbing vines and sticks to get around, since we moved them the humidity isnt declining the way it was in the rubbermaid setup and the few that have died since the move were the ones who were declining before the move... everyone else looks healthy and good so far... we are hoping that it was the previous setup that got to them and not anything else...

 

[Johnny84]

Did it ever hit a high temp during incubating?

what blood lines did the parents come from?

the highest the temp got was maybe 75 or 76
the sire came from kammerflage and the dam came from screameleons...

 

[camimom]

the highest the temp got was maybe 75 or 76
the sire came from kammerflage and the dam came from screameleons...

well incubating temps were ok i think.

they werent related.

im not sure at this point.

 

[Texas Ranger]

A lot of things come in to play when this happens I think the number one thing is how the mom was supplemented when carrying the eggs. Next I use no basking bulb and I keep there temps no higher then 78 for there first month of life. I use just a used 6 month old uvb bulb and a 6500k bulb to keep my temps steady. I personally would never use a new uvb bulb on babies until they are 3 months old the amount that comes out of those things is crazy and I think is to much uvb radiation imo ..... Next what are you dusting and gut loading your feeders with and what feeders are you using?

 

[chameleonkev]

Very Strange if the parents were unrelated, couple of thing not yet mentioned, we're you dusting the food? Did you see them eat because is it possible the food was to large for them to consume? Did you have substrait in there that they could of ingested and died from wile eating. Also where all the babies housed in one viv? Could it be possible that the larger more dominate young bullied the smaller and didn't allow them to eat or anything? It does happen if some are bigger than others

 

[Wykd]

A lot of things come in to play when this happens I think the number one thing is how the mom was supplemented when carrying the eggs. Next I use no basking bulb and I keep there temps no higher then 78 for there first month of life. I use just a used 6 month old uvb bulb and a 6500k bulb to keep my temps steady. I personally would never use a new uvb bulb on babies until they are 3 months old the amount that comes out of those things is crazy and I think is to much uvb radiation imo ..... Next what are you dusting and gut loading your feeders with and what feeders are you using?

That's an interesting point on the new bulbs, I didn't think of that. It would almost pay to "break in a uvb or 2" if your breeding just to prevent the over radiating of the babies.

How are you using a 6500k to heat? I just don't recall a cfl or t8 putting out enuff heat to radiate 4 inches away from the bulb.

 

[Texas Ranger]

That's an interesting point on the new bulbs, I didn't think of that. It would almost pay to "break in a uvb or 2" if your breeding just to prevent the over radiating of the babies.

How are you using a 6500k to heat? I just don't recall a cfl or t8 putting out enuff heat to radiate 4 inches away from the bulb.

Yeah I save all my old uvb bulbs from my adults to use on my babies and it works great I thought of this why I was waiting for my first hatchlings it works well for me. And they are all t8s I don't trust ftp bulbs. Take the 2 bulbs and fire them up the 6500k puts off some warmth to it and the uvb not really any heat at all. I will see if i can find my old thread on my baby rack. Without the 6500k bulb the temps go down to room temp of 73 so I know it is building up heat in my baby set ups just a very small amount just right for babies

 

[Texas Ranger]

Here is my set up.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wcfa7rEupFM

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Yeah I do the same as Lee/Tx Ranger I use older uvb bulbs on my babies and no basking lights for at least a month or six weeks. I have some babies now that hatched in mid may and they are just now ready to get into a setup with a basking bulb. Overheating can dehydrate & kill babies fast.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Agree with Texas Ranger that the health of the mother, how she is fed etc is a major factor in the health of babies. Indeed, from BEFORE she was even bred.

I use a UVB tube thats a couple months old/used. No basking bulb most of the time, or at most just a small 25watt bulb.

Good hydration is key for babies.
Had you seen them (those that didnt make it) drinking and eating?

 

[Johnny84]

A lot of things come in to play when this happens I think the number one thing is how the mom was supplemented when carrying the eggs. Next I use no basking bulb and I keep there temps no higher then 78 for there first month of life. I use just a used 6 month old uvb bulb and a 6500k bulb to keep my temps steady. I personally would never use a new uvb bulb on babies until they are 3 months old the amount that comes out of those things is crazy and I think is to much uvb radiation imo ..... Next what are you dusting and gut loading your feeders with and what feeders are you using?

okay so Ive switched to the old UVB that I was using in the first place and took the basking bulb down... I have not been dusting? what supplement schedule should I use with the babies?
our oldest hatchling is now 2 months and the youngest is not even a day...
we have been using fruit flies in various sizes as well as pinhead crix and 1/16 crix... the feeders are being gutloaded with total bites by nature zone... but have been thinking of switching to repashy super foods superload?!!

 

[Johnny84]

Good hydration is key for babies.
Had you seen them (those that didnt make it) drinking and eating?

the ones that passed i only seen eat a few times but were drinking really well at first.... then they stopped eating and drinking... we felt like maybe we werent offering enough feeders but there are always feeders in there and we are always adding more... we see them eat but not go crazy for food like you watch in others videos...

 

[sandrachameleon]

okay so Ive switched to the old UVB that I was using in the first place and took the basking bulb down... I have not been dusting? what supplement schedule should I use with the babies?
our oldest hatchling is now 2 months and the youngest is not even a day...
we have been using fruit flies in various sizes as well as pinhead crix and 1/16 crix... the feeders are being gutloaded with total bites by nature zone... but have been thinking of switching to repashy super foods superload?!!

Hopefully the change in bulb will help. Its really hard to loose them!

Yes, you absolutely should be supplementing. I recommend dusting at least half of the fruit flies with a vitamin free calcium powder most days. Weekly use a vitamin powder. The crickets should also be dusted.

While I myself prefer a more hands-on approach to gutloading, using vegetables etc. many people do use things like Repashy Bug Burger, or vegetables along with Dino Fuel or Cricket Crack, or Bug Burger with Dino Fuel, etc. I personally think the total bites is a less than desirable choice.

There are other feeder choices you might consider offering to your hatchlings as well, especially those that are over a month old: bean weavil beetles, very small terrestrial isopods, baby silkworms, baby mealworms, pheonix worms (solider fly larva), etc.

 

[Johnny84]

Very Strange if the parents were unrelated, couple of thing not yet mentioned, we're you dusting the food? Did you see them eat because is it possible the food was to large for them to consume? Did you have substrait in there that they could of ingested and died from wile eating. Also where all the babies housed in one viv? Could it be possible that the larger more dominate young bullied the smaller and didn't allow them to eat or anything? It does happen if some are bigger than others

we have been feeding fruit flies and pin head crix...
no substrate in the cages... I have been using papertowels for easy cleaning...
and there is only 1 guy that is bigger than the rest and Ive not ever noticed intimidation between them and him...

 

[Johnny84]

There are other feeder choices you might consider offering to your hatchlings as well, especially those that are over a month old: bean weavil beetles, very small terrestrial isopods, baby silkworms, baby mealworms, pheonix worms (solider fly larva), etc.

We have tried with dubia nymphs and baby mealworms and none of my babies have responded to these they seem to like the quick moving spiradic (dont know if this is spelled correctly) bugs... I will start dusting my feeders asap... so im going to want to use calcium with vit. d3 regularly? and then with d3 once a week and herptivite as well?!! thank you all so much for all the advice and help... if there are any other opinios and constructive criticism out there please lay it on us because we want to see these guys grow up big and strong...