Why is there brown crust around my chameleon’s mouth?

[emmydecker13]

I’ve had my male ambilobe/nosy be panther chameleon for about 9 months and he’s approx 14 months old. He’s been in great health the whole time I’ve had him and other than this issue, he’s still in great health. He’s eating and acting normal. His humidity, misting set up and temp are all good and nothing about his environment has changed. He has a brownish crust on the right side of his mouth. Has anyone seen this and know what could be causing it?

 

[Flick boy]

I’ve had my male ambilobe/nosy be panther chameleon for about 9 months and he’s approx 14 months old. He’s been in great health the whole time I’ve had him and other than this issue, he’s still in great health. He’s eating and acting normal. His humidity, misting set up and temp are all good and nothing about his environment has changed. He has a brownish crust on the right side of his mouth. Has anyone seen this and know what could be causing it?

Hi do you have a picture of your entire enclosure including lighting and supplements

 

[emmydecker13]

Hi do you have a picture of your entire enclosure including lighting and supplements

I attached the pics of my set up and what I use. Humidity stays between 60-80% basking during the day runs somewhere around 80-85 and nighttime is 65-70.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

If you answer these questions as specifically as possible we can review your husbandry….you do have some things that should be corrected...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

Looks like your chameleon may have mouth rot and you need to see a good chameleon vet to have it cleaned out and the chameleon put on the appropriate antibiotic.

 

[emmydecker13]

Thank you!

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Male ambilobe/nosy be panther chameleon. Approx 14 months old and been in my care for about 9 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

1-2 times a month. Working on him coming to me on his own which he's finally beginning to do!

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

I feed him baby crickets and hand feed mealworms. He gets approx 8 crickets a day, 1-5 mealworms every couple of days. I feed the crickets fluker's high calcium cricket diet and quench with fluker's quencher.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

I dust with fluker's repta calcium on the crickets but not every time I feed him. Probably every other to every third day.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I have a misting system. He gets 30 seconds of hydration every 3 hours. I also hand mist occasionally. I see him drink frequently.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Never been tested for parasites. His droppings are normal, oval-shaped and soft.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

I was having issues with him rubbing his eye a bit much but that has seemed to go away with more hydration.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen Reptibreeze 16" x 16" x 30"

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Lights are on auto timer, day light comes on 7am and night light switches on 7pm.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Basking during the day is 80-85 nighttime is 65-70 Fahrenheit. I have a temp gage.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

60-80% humidity at all times. Water mister maintains humidity.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Located in the den next to a snake tank not near a fan or vent. Top of cage is mid-level relative to the floor.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Arlington, Virginia USA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Possible mouth rot.

I also want to say that I have been planning on buying him a bigger cage as he's grown significantly since I got him and it's about time to upgrade.

 

[emmydecker13]

Welcome to the forum!

If you answer these questions as specifically as possible we can review your husbandry….you do have some things that should be corrected...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

Looks like your chameleon may have mouth rot and you need to see a good chameleon vet to have it cleaned out and the chameleon put on the appropriate antibiotic.

Thank you!

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Male ambilobe/nosy be panther chameleon. Approx 14 months old and been in my care for about 9 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

1-2 times a month. Working on him coming to me on his own which he's finally beginning to do!

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

I feed him baby crickets and hand feed mealworms. He gets approx 8 crickets a day, 1-5 mealworms every couple of days. I feed the crickets fluker's high calcium cricket diet and quench with fluker's quencher.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

I dust with fluker's repta calcium on the crickets but not every time I feed him. Probably every other to every third day.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I have a misting system. He gets 30 seconds of hydration every 3 hours. I also hand mist occasionally. I see him drink frequently.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Never been tested for parasites. His droppings are normal, oval-shaped and soft.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

I was having issues with him rubbing his eye a bit much but that has seemed to go away with more hydration.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen Reptibreeze 16" x 16" x 30"

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Lights are on auto timer, day light comes on 7am and night light switches on 7pm.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Basking during the day is 80-85 nighttime is 65-70 Fahrenheit. I have a temp gage.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

60-80% humidity at all times. Water mister maintains humidity.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Located in the den next to a snake tank not near a fan or vent. Top of cage is mid-level relative to the floor.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Arlington, Virginia USA

I also want to say that I have been planning on buying him a bigger cage as he's grown significantly since I got him and it's about time to upgrade.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Possible mouth rot.

I also want to say that I have been planning on buying him a bigger cage as he's grown significantly since I got him and it's about time to upgrade.

 

[Coop]

While i cannot review your entire husbandry setup currently, I can immediately tell you that that's mouth rot. A vet is needed immediately, and from what i can see, there are a few detrimental parts of your setup. Your UVB light is inadequate and you'll need a t5ho uvb bulb. Your night light is also causing impairments to your chameleon's sleep schedule, and whether or not symptoms are visible, you'll need to remove it too.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’ll do the review…just need a bit of time.

 

[emmydecker13]

Thanks for the responses! I’m taking him to the vet this evening for medical care. I will compile everyone’s notes and fix these issues in his setup. I appreciate the help!

 

[MissSkittles]

I talk a lot, so am splitting this into two parts.

Welcome to the forum!

If you answer these questions as specifically as possible we can review your husbandry….you do have some things that should be corrected...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

Looks like your chameleon may have mouth rot and you need to see a good chameleon vet to have it cleaned out and the chameleon put on the appropriate antibiotic.
Click to expand...

Thank you!

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Male ambilobe/nosy be panther chameleon. Approx 14 months old and been in my care for about 9 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

1-2 times a month. Working on him coming to me on his own which he's finally beginning to do! Great blog on building trust here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

I feed him baby crickets and hand feed mealworms. He gets approx 8 crickets a day, 1-5 mealworms every couple of days. I feed the crickets fluker's high calcium cricket diet and quench with fluker's quencher. This needs a bit of improvement. Providing a variety of healthy and well fed feeders is the best way to give your beauty maximum nutrition. Mealworms are not a good staple. Neither of those Fluker’s products is really good for more than barely keeping your crickets alive. Fresh produce is much better along and there are better quality formulas to add. Graphics below to help guide you.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

I dust with fluker's repta calcium on the crickets but not every time I feed him. Probably every other to every third day. Does that contain vitamin D3? There are different regimens and supplements out there, but I’m going to give you the one I use and find easiest. Lightly dust all feeders of every feeding with a phosphorus-free calcium without D3 except one feeding every other week. For that one feeding every other week you’ll use a combination product like either Repashy calcium plus LoD or Reptivite with D3. Right now your guy is possibly not getting any D3 (or too much) and no multivitamins at all. Your feeders aren’t terribly well fed either, so he’s getting little vitamins/minerals from them.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I have a misting system. He gets 30 seconds of hydration every 3 hours. I also hand mist occasionally. I see him drink frequently. It would be much better to mist for at least 2 minutes, 2-3 times a day - before lights go on and off and mid day is optional. Some use a dripper at mid day instead for about 15 minutes and some omit mid day hydration. It depends on your unique situation and conditions. You do want the enclosure to fully dry out in between misting.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Never been tested for parasites. His droppings are normal, oval-shaped and soft. Is always a good idea to have all new animals (including reptiles) get a wellness check and fecal done with a good vet.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

I was having issues with him rubbing his eye a bit much but that has seemed to go away with more hydration. It may be a lack of vitamin A too. Giving either of the supplements I suggested above will help with this if that is the issue. Do not try to speed things along though by giving extra. Vitamin D3 and preformed A are fat soluble, meaning they stay in the body longer and can be overdosed.
To be continued….

 

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles …you beat me to the review!

regarding the food…you said the chameleon is 14 months old and yet you’re feeding it baby crickets…in addition to what @MissSkittles said…you need to be feeding it the right size crickets and insects for its age/size.

You said that the cage is near the snake cage…can your chameleon see the snake?

 

[Flick boy]

I’ll do the review…just need a bit of time.

Cal +d3

 

[MissSkittles]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen Reptibreeze 16" x 16" x 30" Much too small. The sooner you get him his upgrade, the better.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Lights are on auto timer, day light comes on 7am and night light switches on 7pm. This is perfect, but from the photo of your lights, those are not. You need a linear T5HO fixture with either a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb. The screw in bulbs are not adequate and provide no uvb any farther than 2-3“ below. With the correct uvb, your basking area should then be 8-9” below for your guy to get the best levels. For basking light, no colored lights ever for any reason. They are not good for sensitive chameleon eyes. You can use either an old fashioned incandescent light bulb, a halogen bulb or a special basking bulb. Just not LED bulbs and avoid mercury vapor ones too.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Basking during the day is 80-85 nighttime is 65-70 Fahrenheit. I have a temp gage. Temps are good. Is your gauge digital or analog? Analog ones are notoriously inaccurate. Digital ones with a probe are best.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

60-80% humidity at all times. That’s a tad high. The ideal range is between 50-70%. Water mister maintains humidity. Reducing the number of times you mist will help greatly in bringing this down to a better level.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plants Since you’ll be letting your enclosure dry out now between misting, your humidity may drop too low. The very best way to maintain humidity while providing a more natural and enriching environment for your chameleon (plus it just looks better) is to ditch the fake plants and use only safe washed live ones. This will help guide you. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Many will need additional plant lighting. I just pop a Sansi brand 36w plant bulb in the unused side of my double dome light. https://www.amazon.com/SANSI-Daylig...i&qid=1685638392&sprefix=sansi,aps,175&sr=8-5 However, pothos grows just fine without special lighting and is a staple of chameleon keepers.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Located in the den next to a snake tank not near a fan or vent. Top of cage is mid-level relative to the floor. I was going to ask what was in the tank next to him. A snake is definitely going to be a source of constant/chronic stress for him. You need to block his view of the snake. Chronic stress for chameleons can be deadly. For chameleons, height is safety, so you’ll want to place his upgraded enclosure on something that at least comes to waist height to ensure he’ll be able to look down on his world.
I’m also going to advise getting rid of the reptile carpet. Bare floor is more hygienic. The carpets just grow bacteria and become nasty messes, even when kept clean. Other recommendations is lots of branches and vines to give him lots of little roads to travel. Maybe you’ll want to invest in these to hang things so much easier. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/

I’m very glad that you’re taking him to the vet. He’ll probably be given some antibiotics, so make sure to ask the vet to show you how to give them to him…like how to get him to open his mouth and all. I will say to aim for the back of the mouth/throat as the airway is in the front.
Your guy doesn’t look to have much color from that pic. Once everything is all fixed up and he’s fully recovered, you should be amazed at just how gorgeous your guy is.
Do ask any questions. It’s not always easy knowing if this or that is the right product and whatever.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Arlington, Virginia USA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Possible mouth rot.

I also want to say that I have been planning on buying him a bigger cage as he's grown significantly since I got him and it's about time to upgrade.

 

[Flick boy]

@emmydecker13 just to add you said night light comes on at 7pm there should be no lights on at night as this will cause sleep disruption, if you where to find your night temp drop below 50f which it shouldn't then and only then if needed a low wattage ceramic could be used

 

[Beman]

@MissSkittles just did a great review for you and it will go over the information you need to make changes. But for the mouth. That is mouth rot. Needs to be addressed by a vet that knows reptiles and will need antibiotics to clear the infection. When husbandry is off this can lower their immune system so it can allow for a bite to the mouth to bloom into full mouth rot. So correcting UVB lighting, supplementation, and enclosure size and set up will help him thrive.

 

[emmydecker13]

@emmydecker13 just to add you said night light comes on at 7pm there should be no lights on at night as this will cause sleep disruption, if you where to find your night temp drop below 50f which it shouldn't then and only then if needed a low wattage ceramic could be used

So I have a purple UV light, I should eliminate that and have no heat on him at night?

 

[emmydecker13]

@MissSkittles just did a great review for you and it will go over the information you need to make changes. But for the mouth. That is mouth rot. Needs to be addressed by a vet that knows reptiles and will need antibiotics to clear the infection. When husbandry is off this can lower their immune system so it can allow for a bite to the mouth to bloom into full mouth rot. So correcting UVB lighting, supplementation, and enclosure size and set up will help him thrive.

I am taking him to the vet this evening at 6pm. What UVB lights should I be using? Also what tank size do you recommend for an adolescent/adult?

 

[Beman]

I am taking him to the vet this evening at 6pm. What UVB lights should I be using? Also what tank size do you recommend for an adolescent/adult?

Hi there. Just make sure your vet has experience treating reptiles. Not all exotic vets do for example it may be geared more to treating birds or ferrets.

For UVB lighting you want a t5HO fixture and a 6% or 5.0 UVB bulb. You want a 24 inch fixture to run the width of the cage. Then your distance from where the fixture sits on top of the cage and the branches below it should be 8-9 inches to ensure the correct UVB exposure level. This would be a correct fixture type and bulb https://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-pro-t5-fixture-6-bulb-22-5-sale-now-only-69-99/

The 2x2x4foot enclosure is recommended for them. Most of us do screen and then modify it for our ambient conditions.

 

[Flick boy]

So I have a purple UV light, I should eliminate that and have no heat on him at night?

Correct no heat at night or coloured lights

 

[emmydecker13]

Does anyone have large cage recommendations?