why as a treat...

[Legendary70]

Hello.

Wanted to get some info from the experts here. Why feed superworms in moderation and not on a daily basis? Many here have posted that they use the super's as the daily diet. two jacksons.Thx

 

[jamest0o0]

Supers don't hold as much in their gut so not as much gutload going into your chameleon.

Supers are addicting, chameleons will often turn down all other food once they've had them a few days in a row.

Supers are high in fat, 1 gram of fat has more calories than protein (9 vs 4), so it is easier for a chameleon to have excessive calories, leading to obesity.

 

[NashansCamos]

Yes what James said. And high chitin which is harder to digest

 

[lizcrespo93]

I wish we could feed them daily. I'd much rather deal with worms than crickets. Or even worse, roaches.

 

[Multivitamins]

I wish we could feed them daily. I'd much rather deal with worms than crickets. Or even worse, roaches.

Get some silk worms they are my holy grail ... I ditched crickets for bsfl and silks as my main feeders. My guy doesn't really go for the dubia Dispite many attempts. I hate crickets and am so happy we do without. Still use the supers and hornworms as a treat or reward for days I'm all up in his enclosure.

Idk about current stock but morifeeders has been great. I've ordered from coastal and rainbow and have always been let down. Best of luck ditching crickets

 

[lizcrespo93]

Get some silk worms they are my holy grail ... I ditched crickets for bsfl and silks as my main feeders. My guy doesn't really go for the dubia Dispite many attempts. I hate crickets and am so happy we do without. Still use the supers and hornworms as a treat or reward for days I'm all up in his enclosure.

Idk about current stock but morifeeders has been great. I've ordered from coastal and rainbow and have always been let down. Best of luck ditching crickets

Thank you, I'll look into silkworms.

 

[jamest0o0]

Like I just brought up in another thread, silkworms are awesome(I personally hate dealing with them though), but their gutload is extremely lacking if that's important to you.

 

[Legendary70]

I already use BSFL. they love it as well. ill try silkworms. thx

just to be clear. silkworms are good for them along with crickets and bsfl? how much hydration and calcium to each provide?

 

[jamest0o0]

Best thing anyone can do is just constantly offer a variety. Variety>gutload imho

 

[lizcrespo93]

Best thing anyone can do is just constantly offer a variety. Variety>gutload imho

As much as I want to get away from discoids I know I can't. Couldn't even try to start a colony from how afraid of the bigger ones I am.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Yes what James said. And high chitin which is harder to digest

Chitin content is not that high; comparable to dubias, and lower than crickets, BSFL and many others.

From: https://dubiaroachdepot.com/guidance/dubia-roaches-vs-other-feeder-insects
Feeder Insect Macro Nutrition Data

Insect	Cal	Water%	Dry Matter%	Chitin%	Protein% (dmb)	Fat% (dmb)	Minerals% (dmb)
Dubia Roach (Blaptica dubia)	0.66:1	59.80	40.20	3.50	21.81 (54.25)	7.70 (19.15)	1.70 (3.91)
Banded Cricket (Gryllus assimilis)	0.13:1	73.30	26.70	9.60	15.20 (56.92)	5.20 (19.47)	1.06 (3.96)
Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.14:1	62.90	37.10	5.95	18.22 (49.1)	13.06 (35.2)	1.60 (4.30)
Superworm (Zophobas morio)	0.05:1	68.76	31.24	3.62	22.28 (71.32)	17.00 (54.42)	0.34 (1.10)
Waxworm (Achroia grisella)	0.10:1	58.00	42.00	13.44	14.28 (34.00)	24.78 (59.00)	0.53 (1.27)
Silkworm (Bombyx mori)	0.77:1	76.60	23.40	11.20	13.10 (56.00)	8.38 (35.80)	0.60 (2.57)
Giant Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.07:1	61.00	39.00	5.30	18.40 (47.18)	16.77 (43.00)	1.90 (4.88)
Black Soldier Fly Larvae (Hermetia illucens)	2.6:1	61.20	68.80	4.76	17.50 (45.10)	21.72 (55.98)	1.36 (3.50)
Fruit Fly (Bombyliidae)	0.10:1	67.10	32.90	5.33	18.52 (56.30)	5.89 (17.90)	1.71 (5.20)
Housefly (Musca domestica)	0.20:1	74.80	25.20	7.56	19.70 (78.17)	1.90 (7.54)	0.43 (1.70)
Tobacco Hornworm (Manduca sexta)	n/a	85.00	15.00	n/a	8.43 (56.20)	3.13 (20.87)	n/a (n/a)
Butterworm (Chilecomadia moorei)	0.07:1	62.40	37.60	3.90	14.90 (39.63)	6.77 (18.00)	0.49 (1.30)
Superworm Beetle (Zophobas morio)	0.08:1	59.90	40.10	7.26	20.70 (51.62)	16.04 (39.90)	0.64 (1.60)
Mealworm Beetle (Tenebrio molitor)	0.08:1	64.50	35.50	5.72	20.60 (58.03)	3.02 (8.50)	0.75 (2.11)
Grasshopper (Caelifera)	0.18:1	68.30	31.70	8.73	19.74 (47.00)	3.30 (10.41)	0.78 (2.45)
Earthworm (Lumbricus terresstris)	1.58:1	75.80	24.20	5.06	12.25 (50.60)	2.57 (10.60)	0.70 (2.90)
Turkestan Cockroach (Blatta lateralis)	0.22:1	69.10	30.90	6.80	19.00 (61.49)	9.89 (32.00)	0.37 (1.20)
American Cockroach (Periplaneta americana)	0.40:1	61.30	38.70	3.64	20.86 (53.90)	10.99 (28.40)	1.28 (3.30)
Domestic Cricket (Acheta domestica)	0.14:1	73.20	26.80	8.12	17.26 (64.40)	6.11 (22.80)	0.42 (1.55)
Locust (Schistocerca americana)	0.13:1	62.1	37.9	20.80	22.59 (59.60)	8.03 (21.2)	2.12 (5.60)

 

[MissSkittles]

Chitin content is not that high; comparable to dubias, and lower than crickets, BSFL and many others.

From: https://dubiaroachdepot.com/guidance/dubia-roaches-vs-other-feeder-insects
Feeder Insect Macro Nutrition Data

Insect	Cal	Water%	Dry Matter%	Chitin%	Protein% (dmb)	Fat% (dmb)	Minerals% (dmb)
Dubia Roach (Blaptica dubia)	0.66:1	59.80	40.20	3.50	21.81 (54.25)	7.70 (19.15)	1.70 (3.91)
Banded Cricket (Gryllus assimilis)	0.13:1	73.30	26.70	9.60	15.20 (56.92)	5.20 (19.47)	1.06 (3.96)
Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.14:1	62.90	37.10	5.95	18.22 (49.1)	13.06 (35.2)	1.60 (4.30)
Superworm (Zophobas morio)	0.05:1	68.76	31.24	3.62	22.28 (71.32)	17.00 (54.42)	0.34 (1.10)
Waxworm (Achroia grisella)	0.10:1	58.00	42.00	13.44	14.28 (34.00)	24.78 (59.00)	0.53 (1.27)
Silkworm (Bombyx mori)	0.77:1	76.60	23.40	11.20	13.10 (56.00)	8.38 (35.80)	0.60 (2.57)
Giant Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.07:1	61.00	39.00	5.30	18.40 (47.18)	16.77 (43.00)	1.90 (4.88)
Black Soldier Fly Larvae (Hermetia illucens)	2.6:1	61.20	68.80	4.76	17.50 (45.10)	21.72 (55.98)	1.36 (3.50)
Fruit Fly (Bombyliidae)	0.10:1	67.10	32.90	5.33	18.52 (56.30)	5.89 (17.90)	1.71 (5.20)
Housefly (Musca domestica)	0.20:1	74.80	25.20	7.56	19.70 (78.17)	1.90 (7.54)	0.43 (1.70)
Tobacco Hornworm (Manduca sexta)	n/a	85.00	15.00	n/a	8.43 (56.20)	3.13 (20.87)	n/a (n/a)
Butterworm (Chilecomadia moorei)	0.07:1	62.40	37.60	3.90	14.90 (39.63)	6.77 (18.00)	0.49 (1.30)
Superworm Beetle (Zophobas morio)	0.08:1	59.90	40.10	7.26	20.70 (51.62)	16.04 (39.90)	0.64 (1.60)
Mealworm Beetle (Tenebrio molitor)	0.08:1	64.50	35.50	5.72	20.60 (58.03)	3.02 (8.50)	0.75 (2.11)
Grasshopper (Caelifera)	0.18:1	68.30	31.70	8.73	19.74 (47.00)	3.30 (10.41)	0.78 (2.45)
Earthworm (Lumbricus terresstris)	1.58:1	75.80	24.20	5.06	12.25 (50.60)	2.57 (10.60)	0.70 (2.90)
Turkestan Cockroach (Blatta lateralis)	0.22:1	69.10	30.90	6.80	19.00 (61.49)	9.89 (32.00)	0.37 (1.20)
American Cockroach (Periplaneta americana)	0.40:1	61.30	38.70	3.64	20.86 (53.90)	10.99 (28.40)	1.28 (3.30)
Domestic Cricket (Acheta domestica)	0.14:1	73.20	26.80	8.12	17.26 (64.40)	6.11 (22.80)	0.42 (1.55)
Locust (Schistocerca americana)	0.13:1	62.1	37.9	20.80	22.59 (59.60)	8.03 (21.2)	2.12 (5.60)

How can wax worms and silkworms have such high percentages of chitin? They’re both super squishy.

 

[Ramrod]

Chitin content is not that high; comparable to dubias, and lower than crickets, BSFL and many others.

From: https://dubiaroachdepot.com/guidance/dubia-roaches-vs-other-feeder-insects
Feeder Insect Macro Nutrition Data

Insect	Cal	Water%	Dry Matter%	Chitin%	Protein% (dmb)	Fat% (dmb)	Minerals% (dmb)
Dubia Roach (Blaptica dubia)	0.66:1	59.80	40.20	3.50	21.81 (54.25)	7.70 (19.15)	1.70 (3.91)
Banded Cricket (Gryllus assimilis)	0.13:1	73.30	26.70	9.60	15.20 (56.92)	5.20 (19.47)	1.06 (3.96)
Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.14:1	62.90	37.10	5.95	18.22 (49.1)	13.06 (35.2)	1.60 (4.30)
Superworm (Zophobas morio)	0.05:1	68.76	31.24	3.62	22.28 (71.32)	17.00 (54.42)	0.34 (1.10)
Waxworm (Achroia grisella)	0.10:1	58.00	42.00	13.44	14.28 (34.00)	24.78 (59.00)	0.53 (1.27)
Silkworm (Bombyx mori)	0.77:1	76.60	23.40	11.20	13.10 (56.00)	8.38 (35.80)	0.60 (2.57)
Giant Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor)	0.07:1	61.00	39.00	5.30	18.40 (47.18)	16.77 (43.00)	1.90 (4.88)
Black Soldier Fly Larvae (Hermetia illucens)	2.6:1	61.20	68.80	4.76	17.50 (45.10)	21.72 (55.98)	1.36 (3.50)
Fruit Fly (Bombyliidae)	0.10:1	67.10	32.90	5.33	18.52 (56.30)	5.89 (17.90)	1.71 (5.20)
Housefly (Musca domestica)	0.20:1	74.80	25.20	7.56	19.70 (78.17)	1.90 (7.54)	0.43 (1.70)
Tobacco Hornworm (Manduca sexta)	n/a	85.00	15.00	n/a	8.43 (56.20)	3.13 (20.87)	n/a (n/a)
Butterworm (Chilecomadia moorei)	0.07:1	62.40	37.60	3.90	14.90 (39.63)	6.77 (18.00)	0.49 (1.30)
Superworm Beetle (Zophobas morio)	0.08:1	59.90	40.10	7.26	20.70 (51.62)	16.04 (39.90)	0.64 (1.60)
Mealworm Beetle (Tenebrio molitor)	0.08:1	64.50	35.50	5.72	20.60 (58.03)	3.02 (8.50)	0.75 (2.11)
Grasshopper (Caelifera)	0.18:1	68.30	31.70	8.73	19.74 (47.00)	3.30 (10.41)	0.78 (2.45)
Earthworm (Lumbricus terresstris)	1.58:1	75.80	24.20	5.06	12.25 (50.60)	2.57 (10.60)	0.70 (2.90)
Turkestan Cockroach (Blatta lateralis)	0.22:1	69.10	30.90	6.80	19.00 (61.49)	9.89 (32.00)	0.37 (1.20)
American Cockroach (Periplaneta americana)	0.40:1	61.30	38.70	3.64	20.86 (53.90)	10.99 (28.40)	1.28 (3.30)
Domestic Cricket (Acheta domestica)	0.14:1	73.20	26.80	8.12	17.26 (64.40)	6.11 (22.80)	0.42 (1.55)
Locust (Schistocerca americana)	0.13:1	62.1	37.9	20.80	22.59 (59.60)	8.03 (21.2)	2.12 (5.60)

Hey, thanks for posting. I have been looking for a chart like this?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

How can wax worms and silkworms have such high percentages of chitin? They’re both super squishy.

That's a valid question I don't have a definitive answer for; I'm not an entomologist.
The answer may be contained in one of these studies—IDK:
chitin content of feeder insects

 

[AnamCara]

How can wax worms and silkworms have such high percentages of chitin? They’re both super squishy.

Right? Had to Google...


Found this :
"Chitin is also found in the cell walls of certain fungi and algae." Both squishy. Wonder if it's in wax works and silks in a similar fashion. Makes me wonder too if it's only the hard exoskeleton and not the chitin that is hard to digest?

I know nothing about this topic and have no idea and am sure (/hope) someone else can answer this.

 

[MissSkittles]

Well my google search turned weird pretty quick. https://www.edibleinsects.com/

 

[NashansCamos]

Wow I had no idea locusts had such a high chitin rate! Should I stop feeding them?

 

[PetNcs]

Yes what James said. And high chitin which is harder to digest

And too much phosphorus

 

[nightanole]

Wow I had no idea locusts had such a high chitin rate! Should I stop feeding them?

Have you ever found any report, ever, on impactation from chitin? Im not going to poke the nest, but PLENTY of breeder beardies are raised on the "horrible horrible meal worm" along with chicks an everything else. Ive never seen a report on impactation of insect shells in healthy reptile. Reptiles keep in horrible conditions or parasites, oh yea. 100,000 years from now when the aliens are wondering if they should feed their humans insoluble fiber because its undigestible...

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Well my google search turned weird pretty quick. https://www.edibleinsects.com/

And I thought one of the points in favor of humans eating bugs was that bugs are (supposed to be) inexpensive.