Why are fatty feeders considered bad?

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Been wondering this lately... a lot of people say to ease up on superworms, waxworks, etc due to their high fat content. Why is this though? It is a longstanding myth that eating fat makes you fat. Fat calories are some of the most useful, the only thing that I can see is that it's easy to go overboard on calories fast and lead to obesity. This could be a concern for a lazy adult reptile for sure. Wouldn't growing juevenile benefit though? The protein from crickets and roaches is certainly beneficial, but shouldn't some high fat foods have a place as well? Often hear people compare fatty bugs to different snacks that are bad for us because of the sugar content and artificial/processed BS, not because they contain fat. Wouldn't worms be more like peanut butter(high fat, some protein), which is nutritious? Am I missing something, maybe fats are hard to digest for chameleons for whatever reason?
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Been wondering this lately... a lot of people say to ease up on superworms, waxworks, etc due to their high fat content. Why is this though? It is a longstanding myth that eating fat makes you fat. Fat calories are some of the most useful, the only thing that I can see is that it's easy to go overboard on calories fast and lead to obesity. This could be a concern for a lazy adult reptile for sure. Wouldn't growing juevenile benefit though? The protein from crickets and roaches is certainly beneficial, but shouldn't some high fat foods have a place as well? Often hear people compare fatty bugs to different snacks that are bad for us because of the sugar content and artificial/processed BS, not because they contain fat. Wouldn't worms be more like peanut butter(high fat, some protein), which is nutritious? Am I missing something, maybe fats are hard to digest for chameleons for whatever reason?

Well not to nitpick. I had wondered the same as you.

But Peanut Butter is not really nutritious, and only in US is it sold massively or in some cases at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/peanut-butter_n_5105203/amp

I think the all natural peanut butter, could be argued as nutritious, but like Jiffy, well read the ingredients lol.

Of course it is like that for alot of things. My family goes threw quite a bit of Milk, I drink milk, almost every day (my wife doesn't, and thinks it weird I do, but she still uses quite a bit of milk in cereal and such).

My buddy who is an RN in Australia was amazed. He said they don't even sell milk by the gallon where he lives, you can buy it in a quart and he said his family buys 2-3 of those a month.

My family of 4, goes through 2-3 gallons a week.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well not to nitpick. I had wondered the same as you.

But Peanut Butter is not really nutritious, and only in US is it sold massively or in some cases at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/peanut-butter_n_5105203/amp

I think the all natural peanut butter, could be argued as nutritious, but like Jiffy, well read the ingredients lol.

Of course it is like that for alot of things. My family goes threw quite a bit of Milk, I drink milk, almost every day (my wife doesn't, and thinks it weird I do, but she still uses quite a bit of milk in cereal and such).

My buddy who is an RN in Australia was amazed. He said they don't even sell milk by the gallon where he lives, you can buy it in a quart and he said his family buys 2-3 of those a month.

My family of 4, goes through 2-3 gallons a week.
I agree, but I was referring to peanut butter as literal peanut butter, not the kind with hydrogenated oils and whatever else. If we're talking about growing and other functions, all natural/organic peanut butter serves a lot of purposes.

Milk is back and forth, apparently the calcium from dairy is more digestible, but then some people struggle with lactose.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well, since chameleons are in a constant state of ketosis, fat is not a concern? Are their carbs in bugs? Does their digestion/biology even work like that? GREAT question James, for real.
Since they eat a lot of insects, they may be turning the excess protein in glucose, making it more like a carb based diet than ketosis? Or maybe they should be fed lower protein foods and more fat to help prevent them from leaving ketosis... maybe obesity in reptiles is from excess protein? But then again, I'd imagine their natural diets to be pretty high in protein... so IDK hah
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I would love to know this as well! Beman was getting 2-3 waxworms a day when he was a lil guy before I was told not to. But I still used 1 a day as his trust building treat. He adored them.
Maybe the real issue is just that chameleons tend to get picky, only eating waxworms would probably be no bueno and a PITA. Waxworms fed some bee pollen and supers raised on nutrient dense foods mixed in without hunger strikes would probably be beneficial.

I guess this brings us back to the whole 'once a week or so treat' idea. Maybe we're thinking of it wrong though and they should be a more regular part of the diet for beneficial reasons?

I really don't know, just thoughts!

Are there any other feeders that are higher in fat that they may come across in the wild?
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Maybe the real issue is just that chameleons tend to get picky, only eating waxworms would probably be no bueno and a PITA. Waxworms fed some bee pollen and supers raised on nutrient dense foods mixed in without hunger strikes would probably be beneficial.

I guess this brings us back to the whole 'once a week or so treat' idea. Maybe we're thinking of it wrong though and they should be a more regular part of the diet for beneficial reasons?

I really don't know, just thoughts!

Are there any other feeders that are higher in fat that they may come across in the wild?
I dunno your smarter then me lol. I need the 3rd grade broken down in simple terms version when you figure it out :hilarious:
 

Lennoncham

Chameleon Enthusiast
I could be way off on this and I can’t seem to find where I read this but this is what I think.

It’s fine to feed fatty foods to growing chameleons but should be slowed down when they get older.

Feeding to many fatty foods makes them store more fat. Fat soluble vitamins gets stored in the fat cells and used as the fat burns off. If you are feeding to many fatty foods they don’t burn it off fast enough and the vitamins dont get absorbed.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree, but I was referring to peanut butter as literal peanut butter, not the kind with hydrogenated oils and whatever else. If we're talking about growing and other functions, all natural/organic peanut butter serves a lot of purposes.

Milk is back and forth, apparently the calcium from dairy is more digestible, but then some people struggle with lactose.
Raw milk! My husband is lactose intolerant and he can drink raw milk only. I think the intolerance may be protein based vs solely lactose. But back to bugs...lol!
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
I always thought mr reptile knew to eat a fixed volume of food. If that food is too high in calories, it gets fat. If its too low in calories (iguana lettuce junkies) they get malnutrition.

Then again there is only fat, protein, and carbs in this world. "oh no you cant feed that feeder, its too high in protein and your cham will get gout". "oh no that feeder is too fatty, your chameleon will get fat". The feeder calories have to be made of something folks, i dont think there are high carb bugs...
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I could be way off on this and I can’t seem to find where I read this but this is what I think.

It’s fine to feed fatty foods to growing chameleons but should be slowed down when they get older.

Feeding to many fatty foods makes them store more fat. Fat soluble vitamins gets stored in the fat cells and used as the fat burns off. If you are feeding to many fatty foods they don’t burn it off fast enough and the vitamins dont get absorbed.
Well yeah, 1 gram of fat is like 9 calories and 1 gram of protein or carbohydrate is 4 calories. So it's easier to eat a lot of calories with fat. My understanding is that fat remains as energy for the body over a longer time than carbohydrates and burns at a slower rate making it less likely to actually be stored as fat and keeping appetites satisfied. As for the vitamins, fat soluble vitamins benefit from being taken with fat(I use PB) while water soluble benefit from an empty stomach. At least this is what I've learned for timing my own vitamins. If there are any nutritional savants here please feel free to correct me!

At the end of the day obesity is almost always linked to too many calories, doesn't matter which kind. I'm just wondering if chameleons would benefit from more fat in their diets rather than high protein which basically turns to sugar if they're not using it.

I'm rambling a bit, this stuff interests me and I like hearing other's thoughts about it.
 
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