When Should I expect Digging

[NosyBe15]

Hey Everyone.

My NosyBe Pair mated on 1/26. I have always had a laying bin in my females cage, It is 10 inches wide, 16 inches long, and about 10 inches deep. The dirt I use is the Eco Earth mix I think by zoomed. I even put a little plant in the laying bin to let her know its dirt, but I have never seen her dig yet. It has been 18 days. I know that females can be picky when it comes to laying. (I have also had her cage covered with a towel so its as private as it can get) I keep a constant eye on her to make sure she isnt walking around the bottom of the cage looking for dirt, which she hasnt yet. She does hang out on a branch that comes out of the dirt, but hasnt gone to the dirt, or the bottom of the cage.

But at what point should I try a different laying bin, IE a big trash can filled with the eco earth and a set up inside that. I dont want her to become egg bound.

So does she not like her laying bin? Is it still a bit too early to be worring about her becoming egg bound? My understanding is that laying will happen 2-4 weeks after they mate, and we are in the middle of week 2 now. I know she is carring Eggs because she is HUGE, and a nice fire orange color.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[barbara]

Mine lay 28-35 days after mating

 

[NosyBe15]

Thanks for the info. Today is day 18. Looks like im getting closer... WoHoo!!

 

[barbara]

I use play sand in my lay bins they seem to prefer that. Good luck hope you get nice fertile eggs.

 

[Seiryu]

I've had a female lay as early as 21 days. She had 30 eggs, all nice and white. So it's possible to be earlier than the typical 28-35 day mark!

 

[NosyBe15]

I looked at her this morning as I was adding the feeders. She was on one of the bamboo sitcks that are coming out of the dirt, facing down towards the dirt. But still no signs of digging, or attempting to dig. I am at work most of the day, so I only get a limited time to watch her.. And as I said, her cage is covered with towels, so its as private as it gets. I hope she likes her laying bin, or I will have to result to plan B. Today is day 19.

 

[Seiryu]

When she starts going to the bottom more, you will know abouts when she is ready. She could be ready in a few days, or even a couple of weeks yet. I personally just use play sand as well. Some chameleons are picky and you might have to try different lay box substrates.

 

[NosyBe15]

When you say going to the bottom, do you mean actually walking on the bottom of the cage, or just hanging out lower then usual? Because she has been hanging out lower in her cage, but never walking on the bottom or anything like that. Currently her laying bin takes up about half of the bottom of her cage, I guess I could add a second with the play sand, but that would mean I would have to put it on the side that gets most of the mist from the mist king system i have. Would the play sand get too wet?

 

[Seiryu]

By bottom, I mean literally trying to find a nice place to dig and lay the eggs. Some people don't have lay tubs IN the enclosure, so they will generally pull the female out and place her into a lay bin if they see her pacing around the very bottom of the enclosure.

Your girl since you have tubs in there will at least dig test sites to see if she likes the laying medium or not or she may dig 1 hole and lay them in there the first try.

Don't panic too much, you still have at least a few days, if not a bit longer too.

I wouldn't put another tub in if it's going to get drenched with water. You want the laying substrate moist, but not wet.

 

[NosyBe15]

Ok. Ill stick with what I have for now.. The side of the cage I have it on, does get a few drips of water with the mistings, but never drenched. So its moist enough to make a tunnel without it caving in.. It even has a little real plant in it so she knows its dirt. and there are 2 bamboo sticks that go into the dirt that will allow her to get in and out without much hassle. I would just like to know if she likes it or not. I guess ill find out in a few days. If not I am going the big trash can method and will place her in that.

Should I make a little fake tunnel in the dirt to show her? Ive read that on certain threads.

 

[NosyBe15]

Well today I caught her about on the bottom. Of course not interested in her laying bin that has been in her cage this whole time. So I went out and got a big trash can. Filled it with a foot or so of play sand, moistened it up a bit and put her in there. Hopefully she likes her new digs.


Females. Smh!!! B

 

[NosyBe15]

Ok... So new question. Now that she is in her new big trash can laying bin, I went home at lunch today expecting to see some sort of action. Digging, anything, but of course her fat butt is just sitting on one of the sticks in the bin. no signs of digging or anything. I have a time lapse set up so when I get home for the day I will be able to see what she has done all day. I also put a cup in there with her with one Dubia in it and 2 super worms, neither she has touched.

Now my new question is how can I mist her enough to not flood the sand and make it too wet? I did a short mist in the AM, and another short mist on my lunch break around 1230 (just enough to get some drops on the fake leaves i have in there incase she needs to drink), but I am wondering when the point of too much water is going to happen. Her laying bin is a 32 gallon round trash can, with a foot or so of play sand in it.

Oh and today is day 24 since mating.

 

[NosyBe15]

Ok, soooooo yea, after all that making of her new laying bin, still nothing. I have set up a time lapse above her to see what she does all day, and its not much of anything. She just sits on one stick, and thats about it.. No interest at all, I put a little feeding cup in there with her, she hasnt ate in 2 days...

No interest in digging at all.

So today I put her back in her cage, along with a bunch of calcium w/d3 dusted crickets, becuase I doubt she was getting enough UVB the last 2 days in her trash can laying bin. I also changed the laying bin that was always in her cage to a bit bigger one and use the play sand instead of the eco earth. I cant say how long that bin will last in there due to my mistking. It could be flooded by the time I get home, I tried to angle the mist away from the bin but cant say if that will prevent too much h2o getting into the bin.

Today is day 26. Anyone have any suggestions? At what point do I really need to worry about her getting Egg bound? What point should I plan a Vet trip?

 

[barbara]

She may not be ready yet give her more time

 

[DeremensisBlue]

You are nowhere near the time to get worried. Panthers lay around 30 days after mating, but it could be more. The container you have in your cage should be sufficient. Here is my suggestion:
Keep her in her regular cage with the laying bin
Weigh her now
Monitor her behavior - she will lay when she is ready
When she starts crawling around the floor of the cage she is searching for the right place to dig. Don't bother her. She knows what to do!
If she is a get-to-business type then she will get the entire job done while you are at work and the only evidence you will find to tell you something is amiss is some dirt caked on her head...or a 10-20gram weight loss.

Pardalis are not that picky on laying sites. You sound like you are set up fine. Just watch what is going on at this point and suddenly you will be posting a victory dance on this thread. I can tell you that the only better experience than digging up newly laid eggs is seeing them hatch. You have some fun ahead of you!

And, by the way, once the eggs are laid you have six to nine months to be ready for twenty or so little mouths to feed. Get started preparing for that now!
Bill

 

[DeremensisBlue]

When should you be worried? When her eyes start to sink in or be closed during the day. That is the sign that something has gone wrong and a vet visit is appropriate immediately.

As long as she is alert she is good. She may slow down or stop eating when she gets closer to laying. This is where weighing becomes very important. If there is more than 5 to 10% weight loss and she has not laid then you are on yellow alert. (eyes closing is red alert)

I have had some females hold their eggs for 45 days. This is not normal for my conditions, but both mother and babies (much later) were fine.

Bill

 

[NosyBe15]

Nice. thanks for the info. Makes me feel a little less worried about her becoming egg bound.

I am prepped and ready for the eggs, incubator is going, vermituclite is ready, clear bins ready, just waiting on the girly to give me something to dig up.

 

[DeremensisBlue]

Public Service Message: And, one more thing, if you want to talk to a room full of chameleon people who have been hatching chameleons for years and can get to North Orange County this Saturday around 2PM you can consider dropping by the South Bay Chameleon Keepers meeting. You'll get all your questions answered there.

 

[NosyBe15]

Thanks for the PSA. I couldnt get down there last weekend, but possibly next time.

Well the good news is that she has started digging. She's been digging around for the last 3 days but hasnt layed yet. This morning I peeked in her cage around 8am and saw her butt first in one of the tunnels she dug. I have her cage well covered so she cant be bothered. Then before I left for work I noticed her in her UVB basking area, but no eggs yet. So I dumped in some nicely dusted crickets and covered everything back up. Today is day 31, so hopefully today is the day she lays. I will check out the bin when I get home from work today and hope her little tunnel she made is covered up.

 

[NosyBe15]

She was 90 Grams this AM... Had a nice tunnel dug this AM, I get home from work and the tunnel is flat, and she weighs in at 72 grams...

I THINK SHE DID IT!!!!!! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!!!!!!

Im Doing my dance Im doing my dance!!!! YAAAYYYYY....

Now time for me to do a little exploring... I will also post up my timelapse of the whole day after I get it rendered out... Right now she is in my smaller cage getting a nice long luke warm shower..