Whats ailing Leon

[LizardLurkin]

Some people are so averse to anything natural, when animals lived just fine in the natural world for eons until we decided to bring them into our homes. I’ll never understand this. I was told I was killing my leopard geckos for keeping them bioactively instead of on paper towel or shelf liner and the person tried to convince their point by saying veterinarians backed this position.

Not to derail the topic too much, but I get oh-so sad when I see those little plastic container breeder shelf collections...

I hope Leon feels better. I don't have any insight myself here, you're in good hands with skittles and beman.

 

[Nal0114]

It really upset me we have natural vines that grow everywhere on our property as well as a bush we keep cutting back.

I’ve learned not to ask FB for much. I come here now when I have an issue with my chams.

 

[Nal0114]

Thank you, I bought the flukers one we will see how snotty Leon does with it.

I would just go out and scavenge for some natural tree branches of varied diameters. Avoid pine, eucalyptus and others which have either thick sap or strong odor. Give a wash with some mild dish soap, blast/rinse well with a garden hose and let dry in the sun before use. Leave the bark on and you can even leave lichen if you want. This is what I do/use and no problems. Wooden dowels are slippery when wet and easily develop black mold. Bamboo is too slick, especially when wet, grapevine molds. For artificial vines, I like Fluker’s like these https://www.amazon.com/Fluker-Labs-SFK51019-Branch-Habitat/dp/B0009YEB52/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Y0Y0IZTOS72S&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-XlFzIZ5Jnh4SXtT3jGHyREaQ5s0gHAJxcPUTaX2lc2KYmb1P1fM9gnVzMUw1HReeUAMK_oLrLtXleaiTVMPWI8uytaqXz48HDcOdVP6cFN9v6Cp4uLQ6lC0WL3ha3SLtzwVlDJ2Q-xbJ5QMFDlCpQ90KLSPsDltlD5gyJlFaSqoFvkQ6RnOUsx5ydbyFaPf8Dq6mHxKT1F5dHZTpPl4dcl2P_rkykshAuA9jWkgMoNHV8sGo0vysQxI0DOy2Tix_p31Idlx9T2_KHs7JE_BXcTfqooJjAkR7z94K9ET7FU.FZucln63x-5aNvctriOIEbQ3taEveMf-4_6yMGgLMCI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Fluker's+vines&qid=1750091007&sprefix=fluker's+vines,aps,260&sr=8-1&th=1 This one is ok, but I learned you can’t have any of it in soil or anything else which will keep it moist. It’s basically some sort of paper covered with foam. https://www.amazon.com/Bendable-Climbing-Terrarium-Accessories-Decoration/dp/B09XXBDPLF/ref=sr_1_18?crid=91LS94U0VEON&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sYjP5Q-LilG6DhwhvN90u7G0MExUnEZYr7gUs6D3p5csesOKWOVlhFMbFLDyE6Kt3SFyshL8qSKw3MkhgOMC1EX72AwwwoxJ-hMkbcSNH7uT27-PguG4g_WiNoPrU1_swKPq000C8pY07pXYUMEOrpL4PyDcdz7cV1NbXRRxKzHrriXxAREW5izhSaNJyVMuSQhxeIf3z4-zC2z4gdZh86EZGP-MqVCfh4z3afVDCchPpSHvSP1ixaLYr4mab7eeI3B1FsYY0df_FflryqHTNcTfqooJjAkR7z94K9ET7FU.NSMIWJ42UxNuDw_UDRVUeDhxBgs2dRHS9rpY30JHCH4&dib_tag=se&keywords=Reptile+vines&qid=1750091210&sprefix=reptile+vines,aps,215&sr=8-18&th=

 

[Nal0114]

What are your thoughts?

I never thought he was neurological. He didn’t seem neurological, as a matter of fact he’s outside right now and seems to be fine.

**this is from one of the avian and exotic specialists **

 

[Nal0114]

What are your thoughts?

I never thought he was neurological. He didn’t seem neurological, as a matter of fact he’s outside right now and seems to be fine.

**this is from one of the avian and exotic specialists **

However when my husband picked him up he was at Petco they kept him In the back as unsellable because their vet said he was neurological. But their vet told them to increase his vitamin D3 intake.

And when I got him he was getting way to much D3.

That was October of last year. He turned 1 this month.

 

[Beman]

What are your thoughts?

I never thought he was neurological. He didn’t seem neurological, as a matter of fact he’s outside right now and seems to be fine.

**this is from one of the avian and exotic specialists **

That their husbandry feedback is incorrect... 5-6 times a day is overkill. Shows they do not know correct husbandry for a chameleon. He is exhibiting classic RI symptoms. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/

 

[Nal0114]

That their husbandry feedback is incorrect... 5-6 times a day is overkill. Shows they do not know correct husbandry for a chameleon. He is exhibiting classic RI symptoms. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/

I definitely DO NOT mist his cage 5-6 times per day. It goes for 2 mins at 5 am, 1 min at noon, and 2 mins at 7pm and it’s been this way for almost a year.

Their initial response was to increase his B vitamins, and get him outside in the sun.

When I read the chameleon academy page my thoughts were RI. He’s doing exactly what it states there.

I told them I did not want to start medications of there was a different way to help him. Because I don’t want to kill him.

That’s when they said increase b vitamins and get him in the sun.

I work in vetmed but not with reptiles unfortunately. So my question was will this go away if it’s not treated with meds. Or isn’t like in cats and dogs it will lead to pneumonia or something if it goes untreated.

And that was the response I got. - this is the same lady that gave me incorrect husbandry for my Jade when she was sick and I knew it wasn’t right.

 

[Nal0114]

That their husbandry feedback is incorrect... 5-6 times a day is overkill. Shows they do not know correct husbandry for a chameleon. He is exhibiting classic RI symptoms. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-respiratory-infection/

Here is the husbandry pics you wanted yesterday

I told the Dr I work with I said I know this is a husbandry issue because the perfect storm happened all at once and he was compromised it’s just pin pointing the problem.

I said when Leon is outside he’s fine.

 

[Beman]

Here is the husbandry pics you wanted yesterday

I told the Dr I work with I said I know this is a husbandry issue because the perfect storm happened all at once and he was compromised it’s just pin pointing the problem.

I said when Leon is outside he’s fine.

The dirt in the bottom of the cage... Is that a fully bio active with drainage layer, clean up crew insects etc? Or is it just dirt?

 

[Beman]

I definitely DO NOT mist his cage 5-6 times per day. It goes for 2 mins at 5 am, 1 min at noon, and 2 mins at 7pm and it’s been this way for almost a year.

Their initial response was to increase his B vitamins, and get him outside in the sun.

When I read the chameleon academy page my thoughts were RI. He’s doing exactly what it states there.

I told them I did not want to start medications of there was a different way to help him. Because I don’t want to kill him.

That’s when they said increase b vitamins and get him in the sun.

I work in vetmed but not with reptiles unfortunately. So my question was will this go away if it’s not treated with meds. Or isn’t like in cats and dogs it will lead to pneumonia or something if it goes untreated.

And that was the response I got. - this is the same lady that gave me incorrect husbandry for my Jade when she was sick and I knew it wasn’t right.

No, I meant them telling you to mist that much shows they do not know correct husbandry. So if this is an RI then it will progressively get worse until he passes away from not being able to breathe. Not trying to be harsh but RI's are the worst to deal with and they can start out without symptoms until it progresses to the point of pointing the nose up because breathing issues have started.

You mentioned using earthpro. Are you using Earth pro A? If so this is filled with B vitamins along with many other water soluble vitamins. https://arcadiareptile.com/earthpro/supplements/earthpro-a/

 

[Nal0114]

It has custodian crew and drainage.

 

[Nal0114]

No, I meant them telling you to mist that much shows they do not know correct husbandry. So if this is an RI then it will progressively get worse until he passes away from not being able to breathe. Not trying to be harsh but RI's are the worst to deal with and they can start out without symptoms until it progresses to the point of pointing the nose up because breathing issues have started.

You mentioned using earthpro. Are you using Earth pro A? If so this is filled with B vitamins along with many other water soluble vitamins. https://arcadiareptile.com/earthpro/supplements/earthpro-a/

I use the Arcadia feeding program. So the Earth pro A, calcium magnesium, and D3.

I did get him to take a few crickets powdered with it. However, if the b vitamins aren’t a cure than what do I do?

He’s almost gotta have the antibiotics.

 

[Beman]

It has custodian crew and drainage.

Can you talk to me about how you set this up? How deep is the drainage layer and what was used for it? Screen or mesh in between drainage layer and dirt? What type of dirt was used? What type of clean up crew are you utilizing? This could be a bacterial issue from the dirt in the bottom. Which would explain why when he is out in fresh air he is not showing the same symptoms.

 

[Nal0114]

So the very bottom is a drainage tray. Then a screen (dragon strand hybrid tall cage) then a drainage rock layer, than the dirt.

There are little iso pods, there are spring tails, worms. They’re all reproducing going to town.

 

[Nal0114]

I can and will absolutely get rid of all of that drainage area to. It was mostly a set up for my female she laid her eggs in it.

She was in there for about a year. But when I bought her she was sick I knew she wasn’t going to live I am shocked she lived as long as she did honestly.

Then my husband went and bought Leon.

 

[Beman]

So the very bottom is a drainage tray. Then a screen (dragon strand hybrid tall cage) then a drainage rock layer, than the dirt.

There are little iso pods, there are spring tails, worms. They’re all reproducing going to town.

I can and will absolutely get rid of all of that drainage area to. It was mostly a set up for my female she laid her eggs in it.

She was in there for about a year. But when I bought her she was sick I knew she wasn’t going to live I am shocked she lived as long as she did honestly.

Then my husband went and bought Leon.

Ok so he went into the cage and it was not cleaned out prior? Do you know what she passed away from?

So a few things here... There is cross contamination from your female prior.

I would pull the entire dirt bottom everything out. Wash it out with dawn and hot water. pull the cage off the DS Drainage tray and remove the screen bottom. Clean both really well with hot water and dawn. DO NOT PUT OUTSIDE IN THE SUN> It can warp your tray. Wash down the inside walls of your cage where there is any trace of dirt.

Once everything is fully clean put the cage back on the drain pan and put the screen in.

 

[Nal0114]

Ok so he went into the cage and it was not cleaned out prior? Do you know what she passed away from?

So a few things here... There is cross contamination from your female prior.

I would pull the entire dirt bottom everything out. Wash it out with dawn and hot water. pull the cage off the DS Drainage tray and remove the screen bottom. Clean both really well with hot water and dawn. DO NOT PUT OUTSIDE IN THE SUN> It can warp your tray. Wash down the inside walls of your cage where there is any trace of dirt.

Once everything is fully clean put the cage back on the drain pan and put the screen in.

It was cleaned it was fully emptied out wiped down cleaned up and reset up I bought new bulbs everything was new to him going into it.

She died of gout.

 

[Nal0114]

It was cleaned it was fully emptied out wiped down cleaned up and reset up I bought new bulbs everything was new to him going into it.

She died of gout.

I have already done this. I got rid of all the dirt. All the custodial crew is now free outside somewhere.

I wiped everything down. I’m currently I am pulling branches and vines from outside to stick in there. His plant was washed down as well. Everything was washed top to bottom.

 

[Nal0114]

He is currently outside in his outside set up, he hasn’t had any problems at all. Both eyes open, not opening his mouth to breathe. Active climbing around and such. It’s a mostly shaded partially sunny area right now. Around 1 or 2 the sun will be on that area fully and I’ll move his cage out of there so he isn’t in direct sunlight.

 

[Beman]

Keep the door open on the cage and let it air out really well before you put him back in it. Watch him closely. Hopefully the dirt was just creating stagnant air that he was having issues with. If you do not see any signs of RI which would be nose pointed up, funky breathing sounds, stringy saliva then hopefully you do not have to go through treating him. Medicating chams is not fun for the owner. Can be just as stressful for us as it is for them.