Whats ailing Leon

[Nal0114]

Okay guys. So the past few days Leon has been acting weird. Also I had a lot of things happen.

1. My chromalux basking bulb blew and I had to switch him to Arcadia basking bulb.

2. Mist king got air in the line and wasn’t pushing out normal water pressure. Which threw humidity off.

3. Ran out of earth pro an and it took forever to find anywhere that had it in stock.

Since that perfect storm Leon has been acting weird. And I’m not sure if it’s a vitamin A deficiency or respiratory infection.

Here and there he will open his mouth to breath, he will also keep one of his eyes closed and this usually isn’t the same eye it alternates.

When I took him outside the other day he was fine. Both eyes open, breathing normal.

I was just hesitant to leave him out there because I live in SE Tennessee and the humidity throughout the day can be 70%

 

[Nal0114]

**if we suspect upper respiratory I am going to call baytril into the pharmacy to be compounded for him **

But I know vets don’t always know what to say when it comes to chameleons. I am also contacting an exotic specialist for advice when I get to work today.

I just wanted input from people with experience with chameleons. **

 

[MissSkittles]

With the new basking bulb, are you continuing to monitor the temps? Mouth open could also be if he’s too hot. What are your humidity levels during the day? Do you boost humidity at night? If so, what are your night temps? Any noises from him, like popping, crackles or anything else? Any thick ropy saliva? I think just to be safe, I’d opt for a vet visit. Antibiotics can be hard on their kidneys, so you wouldn’t want to use them unless truly needed.

 

[Beman]

The way he is holding himself looks like an RI. But I am not a believer in treating them with medications unless a vet sees them and can listen to the lungs. Baytril for can be hard on their kidney's. And with chams especially as they age you want to not risk their kidneys unless absolutely necessary.

If night temps are not cool enough and day temp are too hot you can see them gaping. Granted doing it at night while sleeping is much rarer and seen when they do have an RI.

I would put in smaller diameter branches for him. With those huge ones he can not properly grip. This can be a high risk thing if he is weaker and cause falls but also it does not give him the ability to wrap and work his feet.

 

[Nal0114]

Okay guys. So the past few days Leon has been acting weird. Also I had a lot of things happen.

1. My chromalux basking bulb blew and I had to switch him to Arcadia basking bulb.

2. Mist king got air in the line and wasn’t pushing out normal water pressure. Which threw humidity off.

3. Ran out of earth pro an and it took forever to find anywhere that had it in stock.

Since that perfect storm Leon has been acting weird. And I’m not sure if it’s a vitamin A deficiency or respiratory infection.

Here and there he will open his mouth to breath, he will also keep one of his eyes closed and this usually isn’t the same eye it alternates.

When I took him outside the other day he was fine. Both eyes open, breathing normal.

I was just hesitant to leave him out there because I live in SE Tennessee and the humidity throughout the day can be 70%

With the new basking bulb, are you continuing to monitor the temps? Mouth open could also be if he’s too hot. What are your humidity levels during the day? Do you boost humidity at night? If so, what are your night temps? Any noises from him, like popping, crackles or anything else? Any thick ropy saliva? I think just to be safe, I’d opt for a vet visit. Antibiotics can be hard on their kidneys, so you wouldn’t want to use them unless truly needed.

When I pick him up sometimes I hear noises but I couldn’t rule out him just being grouchy and not wanting to be touched. As for ropes saliva I haven’t noticed any changes.

His humidity throughout the day is 30-40% at night it’s between 80-100%. His day time temp is 80-85 degrees night time is 60-65.

I didn’t want to start meds because I don’t want to kill him which is why am getting advice. He turned 1 yesterday.


Currently I have an outdoor setup at home I am finalizing for him but I have been reluctant because I live in SE Tennessee yesterday it was 83 degrees with 70% humidity.

I don’t want to make him sick. But I noticed when I put him out there he was fine. No problems at all. Which leads me to believe it’s husbandry. But I don’t want to leave a respiratory infection untreated either.

 

[Beman]

When I pick him up sometimes I hear noises but I couldn’t rule out him just being grouchy and not wanting to be touched. As for ropes saliva I haven’t noticed any changes.

His humidity throughout the day is 30-40% at night it’s between 80-100%. His day time temp is 80-85 degrees night time is 60-65.

I didn’t want to start meds because I don’t want to kill him which is why am getting advice. He turned 1 yesterday.


Currently I have an outdoor setup at home I am finalizing for him but I have been reluctant because I live in SE Tennessee yesterday it was 83 degrees with 70% humidity.

I don’t want to make him sick. But I noticed when I put him out there he was fine. No problems at all. Which leads me to believe it’s husbandry. But I don’t want to leave a respiratory infection untreated either.

Do you have any ventilation on the indoor cage. Like a pc fan to help pull air up and out?

Your outside temps if that cage is in the sun will be far too hot for him. Also while this is going on I would be very cautious doing extra things like this that could cause stress on his body. This can cause them to shut down.

Can I see a picture of the entire cage? If there are things in the cage growing bacteria and not enough air flow it could be an RI even if your temps and humidity are sitting in the right ranges. For example I see the moss vines. These are not recommended as they do not fully dry out and can grow bacteria.

You mentioned Vitamin A issues... that would not cause these symptoms. But I am also curious why you are thinking vitamin A could be an issue. Earthpro A is not a vitamin A supplement. What supplements are you using and what is the rotation?

 

[Nal0114]

The way he is holding himself looks like an RI. But I am not a believer in treating them with medications unless a vet sees them and can listen to the lungs. Baytril for can be hard on their kidney's. And with chams especially as they age you want to not risk their kidneys unless absolutely necessary.

If night temps are not cool enough and day temp are too hot you can see them gaping. Granted doing it at night while sleeping is much rarer and seen when they do have an RI.

I would put in smaller diameter branches for him. With those huge ones he can not properly grip. This can be a high risk thing if he is weaker and cause falls but also it does not give him the ability to wrap and work his feet.

From what I read on chameleon academy the raising of the nose is them straightening their trachea to breathe.

I do not want to treat medically if it will fix itself. But I also don’t want to to kill him.

 

[Nal0114]

Do you have any ventilation on the indoor cage. Like a pc fan to help pull air up and out?

Your outside temps if that cage is in the sun will be far too hot for him. Also while this is going on I would be very cautious doing extra things like this that could cause stress on his body. This can cause them to shut down.

Can I see a picture of the entire cage? If there are things in the cage growing bacteria and not enough air flow it could be an RI even if your temps and humidity are sitting in the right ranges. For example I see the moss vines. These are not recommended as they do not fully dry out and can grow bacteria.

You mentioned Vitamin A issues... that would not cause these symptoms. But I am also curious why you are thinking vitamin A could be an issue. Earthpro A is not a vitamin A supplement. What supplements are you using and what is the rotation?

I am at work right now, I will send pictures of his cage when I get home.

He does have moss vines he slips and slides when I use the plastic vines and I tried dialing rods and he did the same thing.

 

[Nal0114]

Do you have any ventilation on the indoor cage. Like a pc fan to help pull air up and out?

Your outside temps if that cage is in the sun will be far too hot for him. Also while this is going on I would be very cautious doing extra things like this that could cause stress on his body. This can cause them to shut down.

Can I see a picture of the entire cage? If there are things in the cage growing bacteria and not enough air flow it could be an RI even if your temps and humidity are sitting in the right ranges. For example I see the moss vines. These are not recommended as they do not fully dry out and can grow bacteria.

You mentioned Vitamin A issues... that would not cause these symptoms. But I am also curious why you are thinking vitamin A could be an issue. Earthpro A is not a vitamin A supplement. What supplements are you using and what is the rotation?

He had the dragon strand hybrid cage. Because we were having a hard time maintaining humidity and temps in a regular screen.

So the hybrid cage works like a chimney effect. He’s done well in this cage up until I had that basking bulb blow then everything went down hill.

 

[jannb]

The way he is holding himself looks like an RI. But I am not a believer in treating them with medications unless a vet sees them and can listen to the lungs. Baytril for can be hard on their kidney's. And with chams especially as they age you want to not risk their kidneys unless absolutely necessary.

If night temps are not cool enough and day temp are too hot you can see them gaping. Granted doing it at night while sleeping is much rarer and seen when they do have an RI.

I would put in smaller diameter branches for him. With those huge ones he can not properly grip. This can be a high risk thing if he is weaker and cause falls but also it does not give him the ability to wrap and work his feet.

Also, my vets do a culture on the saliva in the back of the throat to see which antiobiotics works best on the type of infection they have.

 

[MissSkittles]

I am at work right now, I will send pictures of his cage when I get home.

He does have moss vines he slips and slides when I use the plastic vines and I tried dialing rods and he did the same thing.

I would just go out and scavenge for some natural tree branches of varied diameters. Avoid pine, eucalyptus and others which have either thick sap or strong odor. Give a wash with some mild dish soap, blast/rinse well with a garden hose and let dry in the sun before use. Leave the bark on and you can even leave lichen if you want. This is what I do/use and no problems. Wooden dowels are slippery when wet and easily develop black mold. Bamboo is too slick, especially when wet, grapevine molds. For artificial vines, I like Fluker’s like these https://www.amazon.com/Fluker-Labs-...07&sprefix=fluker's+vines,aps,260&sr=8-1&th=1 This one is ok, but I learned you can’t have any of it in soil or anything else which will keep it moist. It’s basically some sort of paper covered with foam. https://www.amazon.com/Bendable-Cli...10&sprefix=reptile+vines,aps,215&sr=8-18&th=1

 

[Nal0114]

I would just go out and scavenge for some natural tree branches of varied diameters. Avoid pine, eucalyptus and others which have either thick sap or strong odor. Give a wash with some mild dish soap, blast/rinse well with a garden hose and let dry in the sun before use. Leave the bark on and you can even leave lichen if you want. This is what I do/use and no problems. Wooden dowels are slippery when wet and easily develop black mold. Bamboo is too slick, especially when wet, grapevine molds. For artificial vines, I like Fluker’s like these https://www.amazon.com/Fluker-Labs-SFK51019-Branch-Habitat/dp/B0009YEB52/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Y0Y0IZTOS72S&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-XlFzIZ5Jnh4SXtT3jGHyREaQ5s0gHAJxcPUTaX2lc2KYmb1P1fM9gnVzMUw1HReeUAMK_oLrLtXleaiTVMPWI8uytaqXz48HDcOdVP6cFN9v6Cp4uLQ6lC0WL3ha3SLtzwVlDJ2Q-xbJ5QMFDlCpQ90KLSPsDltlD5gyJlFaSqoFvkQ6RnOUsx5ydbyFaPf8Dq6mHxKT1F5dHZTpPl4dcl2P_rkykshAuA9jWkgMoNHV8sGo0vysQxI0DOy2Tix_p31Idlx9T2_KHs7JE_BXcTfqooJjAkR7z94K9ET7FU.FZucln63x-5aNvctriOIEbQ3taEveMf-4_6yMGgLMCI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Fluker's+vines&qid=1750091007&sprefix=fluker's+vines,aps,260&sr=8-1&th=1 This one is ok, but I learned you can’t have any of it in soil or anything else which will keep it moist. It’s basically some sort of paper covered with foam. https://www.amazon.com/Bendable-Climbing-Terrarium-Accessories-Decoration/dp/B09XXBDPLF/ref=sr_1_18?crid=91LS94U0VEON&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sYjP5Q-LilG6DhwhvN90u7G0MExUnEZYr7gUs6D3p5csesOKWOVlhFMbFLDyE6Kt3SFyshL8qSKw3MkhgOMC1EX72AwwwoxJ-hMkbcSNH7uT27-PguG4g_WiNoPrU1_swKPq000C8pY07pXYUMEOrpL4PyDcdz7cV1NbXRRxKzHrriXxAREW5izhSaNJyVMuSQhxeIf3z4-zC2z4gdZh86EZGP-MqVCfh4z3afVDCchPpSHvSP1ixaLYr4mab7eeI3B1FsYY0df_FflryqHTNcTfqooJjAkR7z94K9ET7FU.NSMIWJ42UxNuDw_UDRVUeDhxBgs2dRHS9rpY30JHCH4&dib_tag=se&keywords=Reptile+vines&qid=1750091210&sprefix=reptile+vines,aps,215&sr=8-18&th=1

When I had natural branches from outside in the past with my last chameleon I was practically murdered online for it . I have a bush we cut back that has perfect diameter branches.

 

[MissSkittles]

When I had natural branches from outside in the past with my last chameleon I was practically murdered online for it . I have a bush we cut back that has perfect diameter branches.

Was the murdering from here, or somewhere like maybe Reddit?

 

[Nal0114]

Was the murdering from here, or somewhere like maybe Reddit?

No on FB.

 

[Nal0114]

Update:

Exotic specialist does not think starting medications is necessary at this time. Husbandry changes as well as b complex vitamins.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Those people want you to pay Big Branch for marked up prices clearly
Outdoor branches are free, and it's a lot of fun to find cool sticks. Just be sure to give them a good soapy wash and let them dry out before usage.

 

[Nal0114]

Those people want you to pay Big Branch for marked up prices clearly
Outdoor branches are free, and it's a lot of fun to find cool sticks. Just be sure to give them a good soapy wash and let them dry out before usage.

They were telling me how I was going to be the death of my chameleon pretty much.

And she was already one I took in as a sick recover chameleon so I believed them so I took them out because I didn’t want to make things worse for her.

 

[LizardLurkin]

The aggression on the internet within the pet hobby is very disheartening. People often go into extreme guilt trip mode because it gives them something of a power rush. I like it here because you can feel a more general human compassion vs when I was on the cham subreddit where I was constantly seeing people extremely berate others left and right.
There are definitely concerns with bringing in objects from the outdoors, but there are also ways to make them safe and viable. At the very least, to make sure there's no hitchhikers. All I've done with my hoard of sticks was wash them with soap and water and let them dry off in a more dry room before using them. They were much too big to fit in the oven, so I didn't do the baking one might do when putting together other, smaller enclosures.

 

[MissSkittles]

Some people are so averse to anything natural, when animals lived just fine in the natural world for eons until we decided to bring them into our homes. I’ll never understand this. I was told I was killing my leopard geckos for keeping them bioactively instead of on paper towel or shelf liner and the person tried to convince their point by saying veterinarians backed this position.

 

[Nal0114]

Agree’d