What is wrong wih my chameleon !! ??

[Get bunkered]

So my 4 month old nosy faly panther chameleon has been really scaring me lately.... Almost everyday when I come home from school my panther chameleon is curled up against a branch of his ficus plant eyes closed and sleeping ! I don't know why he does this but I have been searching through the forum and I saw somewhere that if it's dark chameleons will go to sleep. There are some places in my cage that the light dosent always penetrate through that are somewhat dark, burn where he sleeps is imbetween the bright fully light area and the darker less light area. Also since I got him on Christmas day I have never seen him eat and only saw him drink 1 time. For the past 2 days I've been in a way force feeding him because I don't want him to starve to death !! I also give him plenty of opporitunities to drink. Sometime when I get home I'll see him walking around with 1 or both eyes closed, but not sunken in just closed, but when I pick him up to see if anything is wrong he swishes his eyeballs in his head then opens his eyes and he climbs around me looking as health as possible, but within 20 mins of being back into his cage he will crawl down to the middle area and close his eyes and walk around very slow with his eyes closed then to the top opens his eyes for a little bit then does the same thing !! I don't know what's going on can anyone shed some light on my situation thanks

 

[dom1959]

can you post a pic and answer these questions?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[dom1959]

if you do you will get all the help we have to give.

 

[Get bunkered]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - panther, male, app. 4.5 months. 3 weeks
Handling - I usually attemp to hold him everyday do he will get used to me but most every other Day
Feeding - I attempt to feed Dubi roaches. None i havent seen him eat since i got him, but 2 days ago i started force feeding 2 medium sized roaches dusted in calcium and multivatamin. No schedule yet he dosent eat anything. I feed the roaches carrots.
Supplements - Everyday sticky tounge farms (brand) calcium without D3 every other Sunday I dust with calcium with d3 , and every other Sunday to calcium I use rep-cal (brand) herptivite
Watering - I mist for 30 seconds to a minute with a spray bottle? Only 1 time since I've had him.
Fecal Description - I have never seen a big enough peice of poop to describe it but the urate was white and healthy looking, never been tested
History - he had a peice of stick shed in his right eye 2 days ago, and that's usually the one that is closed but Ed been closing it before then

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage: screen , H= 3 feet W=18 inches L=17 inches
Lighting -100W powersun UV, it has UVA, UVB and heat in the one bulb. Light on at 6:30 AM off at 6:30-7:00 pm
Temperature - Basking spot dead center of the bulb is 26.6 Celcius according to the thermometer, but that could be inaccurate. It's not to hot because I can put my hand under in the basking spot for as long as I want it warms my skin but dosent get so hot that I want to take it away? At the bottom of the cage it is reading 23 degrees Celcius Not possible to be lower than 65 degrees Fahrenheit... I use a red heat bulb at night. Digital thermometer, but I think its broken, I will get a new one
Humidity - Ambient humidity is in he 60's during misting 85-100, misting and a repti fogger. A digital thermometer / humidity detector
Plants - Yes, I have a ficus in there.
Placement - On a stand 1 1/2 feet from my door, Is it near any fans, air vents, nearest vent is 8 feet from the front if the cage. My room isn't very high traffic every once in a while people will come in and stare at him, because my mom wants to show all her friends. But usually its just me.

​

The top of my cage is 51 inces from the floor, the bottom of the cage is 15 inces.
Location - a picture will best describe this question...

Current Problem - I don't ever see my chameleon eat unless I put the food in his mouth, I've only seen him drink 1 time, and sometime he closes his eyes while walking around the cage an most of the time after I put him in the cage he will walk around a little bit then go about halfway down and sleep.

Hope this helps !!

These are picture from right now

 

[CarlyMK]

Pictures would be helpful as well! Cham if you got em!

 

[ZEUUS]

That 100W bulb might be too hot for that size enclosure. Maybe you can suspend the heat lamp up a little bit so its not so close to the basking spots?

 

[Lovereps]

A possible cause and solution

Actually 2 possibilities.
I had not seen your comment about shed skin in the eye.
You can try to flush the eye with a sterile saline solution to help him clean it out, if you haven't already.
If he was already closing both eyes, the lighting may be an issue also.
I can't help but wonder if a Powersun 100 watt bulb emits too much UV for your chameleon. There have been in the past, lightbulbs that caused this same problem and actually caused blindeness when the bulbs were used long enough.
Why?
Because I have read of at least 3 other people who have used PowerSun bulbs on young chams and have had the same problems--eyes closed.
A cham whose eyes are too irritated to open is not going to open them to eat, either

Without testing it with a UVA/UVB meter and given the fact that I could not find the UV output on ZooMed's site, this is my suspicion rather than a known fact.
You can, for a few days, substitute an ordinary household incandescent lightbulb of sufficient wattage to keep the basking area warm enough.
See if he starts opening his eyes more and more and you will know if the 100Watt Powersun is to blame.

Here are 3 other threads discussing what appear to be the same or very similar problems all 3 are using PowerSun bulbs, though there may also be others:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/eye-bulging-closed-100440/



https://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-veiled-sleeping-lot-84469/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-veiled-arrived-eyes-closed-has-not-opened-them-99544/



Eye issues are fairly common cham troubles and can be caused by any of several things:
1) Infection, which can be due to injury, environmental issues, nutritional deficiencies or parasite problems
2) Malnutrition which can be caused by failing to gutload feeders or failure to feed a varied diet, improper supplementation, parasites or simply a higher need for a particular nutrient in an individual chameleon
3) Irritation--sometimes a cham's eye is irritated by something in their environment, such as too little humidity, sap from a plant or a bit of something getting into the eye (shed skin, soil particle, etc.)

The first 2 problems are best treated by a vet.
It is important is to carefully review your care, whenever a health issue arises, as even infections are often caused by environmental issues.

For the third problem, gentle, repeated flushing of a cham's eye with a sterile saline solution designed for use in eyes will typically clear things up, but if there isn't substantial improvement within a day or two, it's time to see a vet.

It goes without saying that if there is something in your cham's environment that caused the irritation, it should be remedied.

For a very informative eye troubles post read this:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/eye-problems-76636/

 

[Get bunkered]

I have no way to move the light up, what kind of house iradecent bulb would you suggest ? And where would I get saline solutuion from ?

Also why my other panther was the same age I had the 100W bulb in his enclosure and there were never any problems with him ? Why would it be different from my new Cham ? His enclosure is also basically the same

 

[Lovereps]

I had no way of knowing that you had used this bulb with a previous cham.
Knowing that now, the lighting seems unlikely to be the cause, unless there is no place for this cham to escape intense light and there were places for that with your other cham.
You can put a regular lightbulb in the fixture for a few days to see if that helps at all.

Something very important that I somehow failed to see before is the fact that you're using a red light at night for heat.
Please get rid of the red light.
It is known that a red light will keep a chameleon from being able to sleep at night and not getting enough sleep is very bad for your chams health.
Unless your room is ridiculously cold, he doesn't need heat at night anyway.

It appears that you have some type of substrate on the floor of his cage.
Substrate is not recommended here for 2 important reasons.
Constant dampness in a substrate is known to cause respiratory infections.
Secondly, chams can accidentally eat some while trying to get a bug and they become impacted. When that happens, nothing can pass through his intestines, which can be fatal if left untreated.

I did not realize that you had previously posted about his eye.
The picture in that post looked more like pus in his eye than shed skin and you mentioned that he was closing the eye even before that.
In this thread, you added pictures and his right eye clearly is having problems, as it looks like the opening is very swollen--nearly shut.

There is a summary about eye problems near the end of my post and a huge amount of info about eye problems in the final link.


Please read the last link, etc for more details on eye problems but I really think that you're going to need a vet for this problem.

Delaying the vet visit for any more than a few days would be unwise, since eyesight is crucial to chams being able to eat and eye infections can lead to scarring of the eye--creating permanent vision problems.

Chams are not adaptable when it comes to things not being just right with their care, so you should get a reliable thermometer and make sure his basking temperature is warm enough but not too hot.

 

[fluxlizard]

saline is available at any drugstore or walmart or grocers in the contact lense area.

Incandescent light bulbs are the "edison" style screw in bulbs. The "normal" traditional light bulb. The very inexpensive kind.

Lastly, herptivite has no vit. A, only beta carotene.

I don't know the cause of your cham's eye problem, but a little vit a orally might help. I tried going vit a free a while back and ended up with eye problems that corrected after poking a pin hole in a vit a gel cap and dripping a single drop in the chameleon's open mouth. Repeated every couple days, problem solved in less than a week, then prevented by switching back to reptivite occasional use which has vit a.

 

[fluxlizard]

I missed lovereps second set of comments when I replied. Good advice there.

Especially the part about taking him to the vet.

 

[carol5208]

lovereps just a thought here.... Don't you think it is possible that certain chameleons can be more sensitive to light than others? I mean just like certain things effect different people and animals. I have a dog that is allergic to this one food and my neighbor has her dog on the same food with no problems. Some people cannot take the sun, and others can sit in it for hours. Just wondering if it is possible that genetic things can come into play.

 

[ataraxia]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - panther, male, app. 4.5 months. 3 weeks
Handling - I usually attemp to hold him everyday do he will get used to me but most every other Day
Feeding - I attempt to feed Dubi roaches. None i havent seen him eat since i got him, but 2 days ago i started force feeding 2 medium sized roaches dusted in calcium and multivatamin. No schedule yet he dosent eat anything. I feed the roaches carrots.Have you only tried dubia at this point? Some chameleons jus tdont like roaches for whatever reason. My male smabava will eat one evry once and while. He loves anything else but dubia roaches. Id pick up some 1/2 iinch crickets and see how he reacts
Supplements - Everyday sticky tounge farms (brand) calcium without D3 every other Sunday I dust with calcium with d3 , and every other Sunday to calcium I use rep-cal (brand) herptivite
Watering - I mist for 30 seconds to a minute with a spray bottle? Only 1 time since I've had him. You really need to provide more water for this guy. 3-5 minutes / 3 times day is a good starting point.
Fecal Description - I have never seen a big enough peice of poop to describe it but the urate was white and healthy looking, never been tested With only spraying 30 secnds to a minute a day. His urates arent going to stay white for too long.
History - he had a peice of stick shed in his right eye 2 days ago, and that's usually the one that is closed but Ed been closing it before then

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage: screen , H= 3 feet W=18 inches L=17 inches
Lighting -100W powersun UV, it has UVA, UVB and heat in the one bulb. Light on at 6:30 AM off at 6:30-7:00 pm
Temperature - Basking spot dead center of the bulb is 26.6 Celcius according to the thermometer, but that could be inaccurate. It's not to hot because I can put my hand under in the basking spot for as long as I want it warms my skin but dosent get so hot that I want to take it away? At the bottom of the cage it is reading 23 degrees Celcius Not possible to be lower than 65 degrees Fahrenheit... I use a red heat bulb at night. Digital thermometer, but I think its broken, I will get a new one Can you post a picture on how you are measuring this? Im trying to figure out how you are only achieving a basking spot of 79 degrees with more than likely your rooms ambients around 72-73 degrees. 100 power suns put out some heat. Im wondering if your bulb is defective, maybe the thermo is defective or the gauge is not place in the correct area to read temps from.
Humidity - Ambient humidity is in he 60's during misting 85-100, misting and a repti fogger. A digital thermometer / humidity detector
Plants - Yes, I have a ficus in there.
Placement - On a stand 1 1/2 feet from my door, Is it near any fans, air vents, nearest vent is 8 feet from the front if the cage. My room isn't very high traffic every once in a while people will come in and stare at him, because my mom wants to show all her friends. But usually its just me.

​

The top of my cage is 51 inces from the floor, the bottom of the cage is 15 inces.
Location - a picture will best describe this question...

Current Problem - I don't ever see my chameleon eat unless I put the food in his mouth, I've only seen him drink 1 time, and sometime he closes his eyes while walking around the cage an most of the time after I put him in the cage he will walk around a little bit then go about halfway down and sleep.

Hope this helps !!


These are picture from right now

Can you try to get a clear picture of the eyes? Is it the blurryness or am i seeing a little gunk? If this is stuck shed you can try squirting saline solution as it has been mentioned, shower chamber or misting your chameleon in the cage for long mistng sessions with warm water.

A vet should see this chameleon as soon as you can.

 

[Get bunkered]

I had no way of knowing that you had used this bulb with a previous cham.
Knowing that now, the lighting seems unlikely to be the cause, unless there is no place for this cham to escape intense light and there were places for that with your other cham.
You can put a regular lightbulb in the fixture for a few days to see if that helps at all.

Something very important that I somehow failed to see before is the fact that you're using a red light at night for heat.
Please get rid of the red light.
It is known that a red light will keep a chameleon from being able to sleep at night and not getting enough sleep is very bad for your chams health.
Unless your room is ridiculously cold, he doesn't need heat at night anyway.

It appears that you have some type of substrate on the floor of his cage.
Substrate is not recommended here for 2 important reasons.
Constant dampness in a substrate is known to cause respiratory infections.
Secondly, chams can accidentally eat some while trying to get a bug and they become impacted. When that happens, nothing can pass through his intestines, which can be fatal if left untreated.

I did not realize that you had previously posted about his eye.
The picture in that post looked more like pus in his eye than shed skin and you mentioned that he was closing the eye even before that.
In this thread, you added pictures and his right eye clearly is having problems, as it looks like the opening is very swollen--nearly shut.

There is a summary about eye problems near the end of my post and a huge amount of info about eye problems in the final link.


Please read the last link, etc for more details on eye problems but I really think that you're going to need a vet for this problem.

Delaying the vet visit for any more than a few days would be unwise, since eyesight is crucial to chams being able to eat and eye infections can lead to scarring of the eye--creating permanent vision problems.

Chams are not adaptable when it comes to things not being just right with their care, so you should get a reliable thermometer and make sure his basking temperature is warm enough but not too hot.

Ok I'll get rid of that red light tonight, also the substrate is to help with humidity, ill drop thr herptivite and grab some reptivite today. I have read very much about the possible health risks with substrate but I like the look and like I said it keeps the humidity at about 10% higher all day when I have it on he bottom and when I don't it gets really dry fast so I've chose to keep it also I am cup feeding Dubi roaches so I don't really hav to worry about him eating it , also they are chunks of wood/husks so he Couldn't chew or swallow it either. And it could have been pus but it didn't look very yellowish like An infection rather wet skin peice. But I wouldn't know for sure. Would you recommend I take him to a vet ? If so do you know any reputable vets in the SoCal area ? I also tried to feed him crickets but he wouldnt eat them so i switched to dubia and he dosent eat those either... Oh and when i mist its not only once a day i usually spray for 30 seconds to a minute every three hours or so, that was probobly important sorry for the confusion. Thanks

 

[Lovereps]

Yes. Please take him to a vet as soon as possible.
Saturday, if possible.
Chams that seem ill are too weak to hide their illness any longer.
Your cham has at least 3 typically serious symptoms of illness:
Not eating, daytime sleeping/ closed eyes when awake and lethargy.

If it turns out that the symptoms are not as serious as they appear to be, you won't regret having had him checked, like you would regret not doing so if they are as bad as they seem.

Although plenty of vets are willing to treat your cham, not all of them are equally qualified to do so.

You are very fortunate in that there are some excellent vets for chams in SoCal.
You would be wise to take him to one of these two.
Though there may also be others who are good with chams--these names come up often in a very positive way.

With over 300 mentions and recommendations on this forum is Tom Greek
http://tomgreek.com/about/dr-tom-greek
Posts like this one:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/visit-dr-greek-100741/

With around 100 mentions and recommendations on the forum is
Dr Stein.
http://www.vcahospitals.com/mcclave/our-team


If I recall correctly, eye infections in chams can ooze white pus, not just the yellow kind.

I think that substrates are very attractive but knowing that chams are more susceptible to respiratory infections if there are molds or bacteria growing anywhere in their cages is what stops me from using any.
My thinking on this is why look for trouble?
Adding another plant or two could boost average humidity more than the substrate.
Perhaps you could ask the vet for his opinion on it.

I hope all goes well at the vet and that your cham is on the mend soon.
Let us know how things turn out.

Carol5208, I did say that it seemed unlikely but is still possible for the bulb to be at least part of the problem.and suggested he put a regular lightbulb in the fixture for a few days to see if that helps at all.
I certainly do agree with you that some chams are going to be more or less susceptible to stronger UV--just like people with fair skin, light color hair or blue eyes are generally the most sun-sensitive.
Glad you added your thoughts to the conversation

 

[Get bunkered]

I'll try to get him to the vet ASAP but both I those are 2 hours or more away and I don't think I could go there is there any closer to menife/ Murieta / temecula area of southern California ? So a little bit of better news.... After the elimination of the nighttime bulb my Chams eyes are always open but his right eye definitely has a small infection starting theres a small bit of white at the top of his eyeball but he keeps his eyes open know

 

[Get bunkered]

!!!

 

[Lovereps]

I hadn't seen your replies until today.
Yes, that eye looks infected.

Here is one excellent vet a little closer
Kent67, a forum moderator with years of cham experience highly recommends this vet, who is closer to you:
Thomas H. Boyer, DVM
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos
9888 Carmel Mt. Road, Suite F
San Diego, CA 92129
Tel: (858) 484-3490
Fax: (858) 484-3499
Member and editor for the ARAV
His website:
http://www.pethospitalpq.com/

You're far better off going to a vet who knows chams than to a vet who doesn't have the specialized knowledge.
Here is the ARAV website page for CA vets.
These are vets with a special interest in reptiles
http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/#California
You can also ask LLL Reptile in Menifee for a recommendation.

Hope all goes well with the vet and that you'll let us know how your cham is doing!

 

[Get bunkered]

I hadn't seen your replies until today.
Yes, that eye looks infected.

Here is one excellent vet a little closer
Kent67, a forum moderator with years of cham experience highly recommends this vet, who is closer to you:
Thomas H. Boyer, DVM
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos
9888 Carmel Mt. Road, Suite F
San Diego, CA 92129
Tel: (858) 484-3490
Fax: (858) 484-3499
Member and editor for the ARAV
His website:
http://www.pethospitalpq.com/

You're far better off going to a vet who knows chams than to a vet who doesn't have the specialized knowledge.
Here is the ARAV website page for CA vets.
These are vets with a special interest in reptiles
http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/#California
You can also ask LLL Reptile in Menifee for a recommendation.

Hope all goes well with the vet and that you'll let us know how your cham is doing!

I set up an appointment for Thursday, is there anything I can do at home to help him in any way or keep it from gettin worse until I can make it to the vet ? Also what would you recommend I do with him while we're driving there ?

 

[Lovereps]

Gentle flushing of a cham's eye with a sterile saline solution designed for use in eyes can help somewhat.
I've used this one http://www.bausch.com/en/Our-Produc...Lens-Care-Products/Sensitive-Eyes-Plus-Saline

For the trip to the vet, a decent size box with a towel at the bottom and a stick/vine/branch secured to the box to grip onto are what I use.

I keep the top closed with masking tape because it can be peeled away and will still hold the flaps shut when put back in place.