What happened?

[lauraduncanz]

This is my first posting.

I purchased a young male panther chameleon, a 'baby' as he was only about two inches maximum, with tail uncurled. Last night he was doing fine, but when I woke up this morning I found him floating in a water dish (used for catching water drippings), with his tongue out and a cricket.

Here is his setup:

Screen mesh chameleon cage (not sure the size/brand). It was large but I sectioned off the cage to be about 1.5ft x 2ft x 1.5ft. Hanging fake plant for him to climb on, as well as store-bought clean driftwood. Red basking light kept the day time temperature at around 80 degrees F, night time dropping about ten degrees. UVA/UVB bulb on for ten hours during day. Home made drip system with droplet of treated water falling about every 20-30 seconds, water would drip down into the water bowl. I made sure to check water bowl constantly for crickets, and it was a relatively tall bowl in hopes crickets could not jump in. Lined the floor with paper towels for easy cleanup.

He was eating small crickets, about four a day. They were almost the size of his head so I was afraid to over feed more than that. He seemed to have no trouble getting them down. I did take him outside about twice for half-an-hour to catch some natural sun's rays (temperature outside was around 85 degrees).
Crickets were fed Fluker's calcium-food and water minerals. Dusted them with calcium about every other day. I did not have a vitamin duster yet, I ordered it online and it hadn't come in yet.

I have only had him about three weeks and was planning on taking him to the vet soon, just to make sure my setup and his health was okay.

When I bought him, I watched him eat multiple crickets to make sure he had an appetite. I did notice his left eye seemed larger than his right eye. He had not shed since the three weeks ago when I got him (and witnessed him shed).

He was not acting lethargic and his colors would change slightly on moods yesterday. He seemed perfectly healthy, would move about and always interested in crickets. He'd eat them from my hand and would sometimes walk onto it.

Did I do anything wrong? And does my setup seem correct? If I forgot to add something, let me know and I will try to answer...

When I found him in the water, (I think he had fell in recently), his tongue was out and there was a drowned cricket. Could he have fallen trying to catch a cricket, I did not think that a chameleon could 'fall'.

I'm really upset, and don't want to get another anytime soon, especially if my setup/husbandry is incorrect. I will post some pictures of him/his setup.



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[KirbyTheCham]

Hi there, I'm sorry you lost your little guy.

The chameleon probably drowned in the water bowl. Water bowls are not ideal due to that. His tongue was out because he probably lost control of his reflexes when his body gave up and relaxed.

As far as your cage I would make some changes. You need to have a LOT of branches and areas for your chameleon to climb in. Right now your cham is limited to one small area of the cage. Put some live plants in there like a pothos. You can use a regular household bulb for the basking spot instead of the red light.

In the future it may be easier for you to get a chameleon that's slightly older... maybe 3-4 months. It will be out of the critical zone and be able to accept feeders more easily.

Good luck

 

[Kate]

I am so sorry you lost him. Any collection of water is a danger to a baby. One suggestion is to have a live plant in there and have your dripper dripping on the plant? You do not mention any method of spraying. A Cham enclosure needs to be sprayed about 4 times a day to stimulate drinking and give humidity. Before getting another I would suggest staying on this forum and do your research. Ask lots of questions and learn. When you feel you can answer other people's questions about basic care you will be ready. Learning from your mistakes will make you a better Cham owner. I look forward to seeing you here.

 

[froggielog]

Hi, Im sorry to hear about your little guy
Its sad to say, but yes they can fall and jump. How deep was the bowl?

Right of the bat,
-the red light?? Is that a basking bulb? You can just use regular house bulbs
-there should of been more plants in there, like this (the photo)

Can you fill this out please, it should help more off us to help you?
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

Dont feel to bad, many of of have gotten started off on the wrong foot. Dont be too discouraged to never get another one, these are really wonderful creatures and it shows alot of good, coming here to find out what went wrong.

 

[AngieL]

I'm sorry for your loss my guess is that he fell in and drowned. I'm not sure why he fell but if there was a cricket in there he was probably trying to get it.

I would suggest covering the catch tray with mesh if you plan to keep another chameleon. If the tub is big enough for the chameleon to fit in there will always be a risk of falling in and drowning.

For your lighting I would say you should get rid of the red bulb and replace it with a low watt house bulb and for UVB this forum recommends a 5.0 strip light. Most people keep the lights on for 12 hours then off for 12.

For a chameleon that size you would need really tiny crickets, the rule I've learned here is that they should be no bigger than the space between the eyes so they don't choke.

I'm going to attach jannb's blog for new keepers so you can have a look https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

He was a really sweet little guy, I'm sorry this happened to you

 

[Hoj]

So sorry for you loss. I do not beleive you were done justice bu being sold such a young small cham. Prefeably most cham are 3-4 months before going to their new home and about 4-6 from nose to tail tip. or 2-3 snout to vent.

I think you will get the rest of the propor tip and advise from the other members here.

sorry agian for your loss

 

[lauraduncanz]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. It is very helpful. Next time I do plan on getting an older chameleon.

I had put in the bowl, because before I was using a smaller 'climb out dish' (previously used for a leopard gecko) and while at school I'd come home and it would have overflown. Next time, I will get some mesh to cover the bowl so that nothing can jump in or fall inside. I will make sure to get a live plant and even more foliage for him to climb around.

I was using an infrared bulb so that I could eliminate using two bulbs... a 'day' and 'night' bulb. Since I've read that reptiles cannot see infrared, I can turn down the temperature a little bit at night without ever turning the actual bulb off. Therefore, he has heat at night, and can sleep in the 'dark'. That's why his light is red. The lighter light is the 5.0 UVB 'curl' bulb. (I'm not sure the exact company, but pretty sure they are both exoterra.)

My house does have air conditioning, so my red light has a stronger wattage than a regular house hold bulb. His cage is not near any vents, but there is no room in my house any warmer than the others.

I will also make sure to feed more appropriate sized crickets. The ones I was feeding were smaller than his head, but definitely not smaller than his eyes. I was hand picking the smallest crickets when I would go to the pet store, but none of the pet stores near me sell pin heads unless I order over 500 at a time. I live with people who are not as keen on the whole 'reptile' and 'crickets' living in the house, so I usually chose to go to the store once a week and pick up about 36 of the smallest instead of housing so many.

Thank you guys, again, so much. I really appreciate your time and commitment to these amazing creatures.

 

[Elizadolots]

Unless your house gets really cold at night, you really do not need any heat. If your house is really cold, then it's better to get a ceramic heat emitter (screws into the bulb fixture, gives heat but no light). One of our members did a study with two batches of babies he hatched and those raised with a red light were noticeably slower to grow.

Almost everyone here just uses a regular household incandescent. You only need the heat to penetrate the top 6-10 inches of the enclosure. You want the bottom of the enclosure to be in the low to mid 70s or room temperature, whichever is cooler.

People here will advise you against trusting the store to properly feed their crickets. I know of one store that feeds their cardboard boxes. What you feed your insects is what you are feeding your chameleon. Even going to the store 1 day in advance and letting the crickets dine on kale, fruits and the like for a night before you feed them off would be better.

 

[Carlton]

I was using an infrared bulb so that I could eliminate using two bulbs... a 'day' and 'night' bulb. Since I've read that reptiles cannot see infrared, I can turn down the temperature a little bit at night without ever turning the actual bulb off. Therefore, he has heat at night, and can sleep in the 'dark'. That's why his light is red. The lighter light is the 5.0 UVB 'curl' bulb. (I'm not sure the exact company, but pretty sure they are both exoterra.)

Chams have many characteristics of birds, and they do have full color vision, so the red light will disturb it at night. They also need at least a 10 degree drop in temp at night so they can lower their metabolism to sleep well. If your room doesn't get colder than 60 F at night you don't need heat. They are adapted to living above the ground and are exposed to a wider range of temps than terrestrial herps would be.