What form of D3 is in our supplements?

[DocZ]

Does anyone know what form of D3 is in the supplements we use?
Is it cholecalciferol, calcidiol, or calcitriol?
Just wondering if it’s a form that requires metabolism by the liver and kidney, or is it calcitriol, the active form

so far the only product I’ve found that says anything other than D3 is Arcadia’s revitalize D3 and it lists cholecalciferol, so it would require the body to metabolize it to the active form

edit: looks like reptivite lists cholecalciferol as well. So that’s probably the answer

 

[kinyonga]

What difference would it make with each?

 

[DocZ]

Cholecalciferol is biologically inactive. It’s the form created in the skin. This is metabolized by the liver to calcidiol (25-hydroxyvitamin D) which is in turn metabolized in the kidney to calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D).
calcitriol is the biologically active form that activates carrier proteins within cells and binds to D3 receptors assisting in calcium transport

I was wondering about how a reptile that liver or kidney disease might be affected by this. Are they unable or inefficient at this process of D3 metabolism? Would they need a different supplement to ensure calcium absorption, such as calcitriol supplementation?

Random thoughts I guess

 

[kinyonga]

@DocZ said..."I was wondering about how a reptile that liver or kidney disease might be affected by this. Are they unable or inefficient at this process of D3 metabolism? Would they need a different supplement to ensure calcium absorption, such as calcitriol supplementation?"...somehow I knew this is why you were asking!

 

[kinyonga]

So..if we're aware that the liver or kidney function in the chameleon is compromised, we could ensure that they get a form of vitamin D that would not need to be changed by the kidneys or liver so the calcium levels can still be maintained.

We could also alternate between vitamins with the different forms of vitamin D in them to ensure that they can get some calcium metabolized in case they were having kidney or liver problems.

Does this also mean that using the D3 supplements properly might be a good idea rather than always trying to get to the point that the UVB is all we use for them to get D3?

 

[DocZ]

I was definitely aware that you knew the differences between the forms of D3

it’s a good question about dietary D3. Any enzymatic process will respond to higher levels of its end product by reducing activity. Kind of a inhibitive feedback loop. So as long as you’re not giving “overdose” levels (whatever that level actually is ), dietary D3 should slow production within the skin. However, there are very experienced keepers out there that are keeping and breeding chameleons successfully without any dietary D3. Sooo.....
I don’t know

 

[kinyonga]

I've heard about keepers/breeders not using any D3. Always wonder if they are using anything in ther insect feed or otherwise that might not be counted...or is it what specific lights are being used.

I knew about the feedback loop too....which is why I never tried to completely get rid of D3 from supplements.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Wouldn't compromised (liver, kidneys) chameleons still produce whatever D3 they need from UVB?
The little bit we give them twice a month always seemed... marginal to me.

Besides, y'know how much D3 we could buy for the price of a T5HO UVB & fixture?
I'd MUCH rather figure out another way of getting them the appropriate D3 without need for the lights.

 

[DocZ]

Wouldn't compromised (liver, kidneys) chameleons still produce whatever D3 they need from UVB?
The little bit we give them twice a month always seemed... marginal to me.

Besides, y'know how much D3 we could buy for the price of a T5HO UVB & fixture?
I'd MUCH rather figure out another way of getting them the appropriate D3 without need for the lights.

So kidney and liver disease wouldn’t effect cholecalciferol production within the skin, but if the liver doesn’t work properly calcidiol levels would decrease and if the kidneys are compromised calcitriol (the active form of D3 that actually results in all the good things D3 does) would be less

cholecalciferol (the stuff produced by the skin reaction) is biologically inactive and requires liver and kidney metabolism to become “active” D3

 

[DocZ]

An interesting overview of some of the factors effecting D3.

https://vitamindwiki.com/Factors+%28including+skin+temperature%29+Influencing+Vitamin+D+Status+–+2011#Kidney_disease

 

[DocZ]

Wouldn't compromised (liver, kidneys) chameleons still produce whatever D3 they need from UVB?
The little bit we give them twice a month always seemed... marginal to me.

Besides, y'know how much D3 we could buy for the price of a T5HO UVB & fixture?
I'd MUCH rather figure out another way of getting them the appropriate D3 without need for the lights.

This is why patients with renal failure are often given calcitriol supplements since their kidneys are unable to produce sufficient active D3

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

An interesting overview of some of the factors effecting D3.

https://vitamindwiki.com/Factors+%28including+skin+temperature%29+Influencing+Vitamin+D+Status+–+2011#Kidney_disease

Oh... lets try that again...
https://vitamindwiki.com/Factors+(including+skin+temperature)+Influencing+Vitamin+D+Status+–+2011#Kidney_disease
Yeah, that works (at least it did when I tested it just now... )