WHAT DO I DO? noob, large cage, cold unsatisfactory egg laying chamber

[MollyGreen]

So in the blink of an eye what seems like a normal ungravid female, can be fat, hanging around the bottom of the cage, and showing those familiar gravid colors. Hanging around the bottom avoiding any sand or potting soil what so ever. The cage is large. For some reason, the egg laying chamber is not up to her standards. I've read what you should do for egg laying chambers but its not working for her. I have a square bucket that is 14 inches tall with damp compact sand. It is well hidden in the back of the cage. With a cage as large as mine, how do i give her privacy? and also, how do i put a heating lamp directed towards the sand...inside the cage?(she might be burned! ) Since this is the first time shes been searching how much longer till she drops?

Im sorry for the bad questions but my situation is a little different, on a larger scale, and I am really doubtful that the trash can method would work.

cage size (6ft H-4ft-3ft)

 

[Brad Ramsey]

The voice of inexperience here>
But ... you might be able to secure a heat source on the outside of the enclosure, aimed at the bucket?
Have a branch going down to it and maybe dig an example hole for her or start one?
I bet she'll figure it out, it's probably not time yet.

-Brad

 

[MollyGreen]

She crawls on the opposite side of the cage. I'm glad she has the obvious coloration thou bc theres no mistaking it. Should i put a curatin around the bottom of the cage? should i try taking the sand box out and reintroducing it? She looks so helpless and i dont want her to get egg bound and die. Im scared

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Why don't you think the "trash can method" will work for her?
It seems to be a proven technique.

-Brad

 

[Julirs]

I safety pin towels to my females cage when she is near laying. She may just not be ready yet. Mine stopped eating several days before she started digging. It sounds like she has a good laying opportunity. Mine ignored her laying container forever until she started digging. Why would you need to aim a heat lamp on the laying container?

 

[MollyGreen]

LAst time i held her she jumped and fell 4 ft to the carpet im scared to take her out of the cage. I'm not to keen on how exactly it works? you place the trashcan outside of the cage?

 

[MollyGreen]

im guessing that sand is about 60 degrees

 

[Julirs]

Wow-that is cold! You could aim a clamp lamp at it, but I wouldn't make it too bright or she could feel it was too obvious.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I think the heat lamp is used when you create a laying container separate from the normal enclosure.
You can't let one leap from your hand keep you from ever moving this animal out of her enclosure again. Now you know she may do this so take precautions.
Follow the lead of many more experienced keepers and either patiently wait for her to discover the laying box in her enclosure or gently force the issue with something like a separate container.
She will lay when it's time for her to lay. It's awfully soon to be so worried.
Either way she'll be fine.

-Brad

 

[MollyGreen]

I guess shes just my pride and joy. To think i stop paying attention for 2 days and bam!Shes all crawling everywhere and shaky when she climbs up a little. Shes just so small and fragile as it is but to think shes giving half of her tiny body and most of that bodys nutrients to those eggs. Makes me see her as near helpless. Seeing your very best friend helpless is a bad feeling

 

[PardalisGirl]

Be patient.........

A lot of patience is required at this stage. My first time gravid females seem to take forever to lay. First they start spending time at the bottom. Then they start crawling and walking all over the cage for days searching for something, even though a perfectly good laying container is right there. Then they spend another couple of days fussing with the egg laying container. Then they finally get down to business. If it goes longer than this, I stick them in a trash can to finish so I don't go crazy.

The next time they lay they are wiser and usually get down to business right off the bat. When she gets to the stage of constantly pacing or walking around you can periodically stick her in the egg laying container and leave the room. Don't stay and stare at her. She will leave for sure. Do this periodically and she will remember the container later even if she does not use it immediately. Or she may just start digging.

One question.....Is your egg laying container and the bottom of your cage really only 60 degrees? If so, you need to heat the bottom area some how. It needs to be a minimum of 72 degrees. Especially now when she is spending so much time down there. Can you clamp a heat bulb or ceramic heater so it radiates from the side bottom? You don't want to have the light shining on the egg laying container. Try heating from the side somehow. Try not to go crazy........

 

[MollyGreen]

Thank you so much for your in dept reply. There is somewhat of a draft in my apartment and it was a really rough estimate. The chamber is completely shaded in the back right corner of the cage which is up agaist the corner of my room. Because of the outdoor temperature drop of about 30-40 degrees the apartment itself felt cooler near the floor and by the windows. In the particular room that shes in there is a draft. I could actually get a rough estimate of the temperature but i know for sure it would be under ideal conditions. Similarly, if i were her, i wouldnt step in that cold sand either. I just dont know how good of an idea it would be to move the egg laying chamber to the opposite side of the cage..where a heat lamp could be situated. This is for the reason that the opposite side of the cage is located in front of the door. (Its a side door) I feel that maybe that would decrease the value of the spot because of its avaliabiliy to predators(me and my bf). I am unsure on this though. DO you think i should move it? Now that its apparent that i need to heat it a little.

The reading near the sand, in the bottom right hand corner of the cage is 72 degrees.

I dont know :/

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Based on my one-time experience with a gravid melleri this is what I would do:

- Place the box in the part of the cage where whe spends most of her time
- Put a towel around the outside of the cage on the side where the nesting box is. I don't think this has to be top to bottom it just has to obscure her view of the outside world while she's in the nesting box.
- Put up a vine that directly connects her favorite basking spot to the nesting box so she can easily walk back and forth (my melleri would often go up to bask in between digging sessions)
- Avoid approaching the cage while she's in the nesting box
- If that means you can't feed her for a few days or mist the cage, don't worry; you can make it up to her once she's layed her eggs
- Place a dripper in the cage if you don't already have one. Make sure it drips near her basking spot but not into the nesting box.
- Don't panic
- Be patient

Good luck!

Suzanne

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Shes all crawling everywhere and shaky when she climbs up a little"...what do you mean?

Can you post a picture of her please?

What is the temperature in the basking area? Does she sit there?
What is the temperature in the rest of the cage? (I know you said that where the container is its quite cool and I agree with what others have said about that area being warmer.)

 

[chamlover]

Hi Molly,
We own numeous chamseleons but have only gone through 3 egg laying events, all which my husband so expertly prepared the egg laying bucket. He said he used 1/2 organic earth, 35 % play sand and the rest peat moss. Just enough moisture so it will maintain it's shape, and then he warmed it up to 75%. It was successful everytime. I'm sure you probably did something like that, but 60% is really cold. She could be there for 10-12 hours digging. Have pity on the poor girl and warm it up. lol. Do you know when she got pregnant? One of ours ate even the day she had the eggs. Only 1 but she ate and then spent 13 hours digging her 35 eggs into the soil. She looked so tired!!! She might not be ready. Ours went in and out for days before she finally laid them. Check the temps, check the moisture, put up the do not disturb sign, and get ready to send out the invitaions to the baby shower.

Debby

 

[MollyGreen]

Here are some pictures if you need better ones i can try using a digital sometime tmw

The pictures are a little better visable when you zoom in.

The first one kinda shows her coloration a little. She has blue in between the yellow/orange spots. Shes a little cranky in the morning.
The second just shows the full body in case her behavior is an idication of something non-natal.
The third is just another coloration shot from the back.
The last two i finally got her to calm down a little and show her normal unstressed body with the roundness. She wouldnt move from here on, so i couldnt show it but she has one lump above her left leg on her belly.

Her coloration changed from the shots, when she sees me or feels watched then she is a brighter green. However, when i spy on her she is a forest green with the bright yellow spots and hints of blue.

P.s. She has real plants in her cage too.(7 of them)

The temperature at the bottom of the cage is 72 not 60. I said 60 as a really horrible estimation. Also, I know her egg laying chamber should be heated up a little. The delimma is whether or not she would feel it was safe enough because the best place i could place it to clamp a light near it would be right in front of the door of the cage. I was unsure if she would see this as too close to predators.

Also, there are 2 basking areas one on the left and one on the right back corners of the cage(spaced 3 feet apart). These are ..well i have the branch at an angle for both of them , and one basking spot is a lot closer than the other. There is another basking spot in the middle height of the cage, this is aimed at the real plants and has some pothos vines hanging in front of it. She sits in the left corner(closest) the most, it has a low-medium amount of exposure. When shes angry or stressed she moves to the right back corner basking spot which is fully surrounded by folliage so i cant see her very well at all. In the mornings, after she eats she sometimes goes to the hibiscus plant and eats some of that and then basks for a little eventually returning to the left corner this is a widely open spot. The egg laying chamber is in the lower right hand corner. the door is on the left of the cage. Her behavior lately has been climb down fast crawl around on the bottom of the cage, climb the side of the cage which she has rarely done, and then return to her basking spot for a while. 10 minutes later she returns to the bottom. Going down she crawls fast and stealthy but climbing up it seems shes having a little more difficulty. Shes really catious and she looks weak climbing up. By weak or shaky i mean, sort of clumbsy and like shes unsure and careful. Also, i mean she usually climbs around with intention and sometimes i feel like i dont challenge her enough because she makes its look easy.

Temperature readings:

upper left:75-78
upper right:77-80
middle:74-75
floor:72
basking(left)100-105
basking(right)90-100
basking(lower)110-90

 

[MollyGreen]

I just noticed this and took a picture. Her urate has been like this for weeks, i really really feel like she isnt drinking even when im not there. Ive tried misting 5-6 times a day for 3 days and she hated it and me. So i slowed down to 2 a day. I make an effort to drench her casque and i really feel like that is the only reason she may be getting any water. That and the crickets we feed her. She was getting really well until yesterday, she actually left food in the container. Her urate looks liek the spots on the plant in the photo in 2 other spots and ive seen spots where there was fecal but no urate. She has been like this for a while and acts healthy but it just doesnt seem right.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Sounds like she may be getting closer to laying.
Has she gone in the box or checked it out at all yet?
Have you placed her in it ? Dug an example hole for her?

-Brad

 

[judeszoo]

Any ideas on how to heat up the laying substrate? Sorry to butt in to your thread, but I'm having similar problems with my Carpet cham.

 

[RhettusMaximus]

fem.

My female stopped drinking about 5 days before she layed eggs, then drank alot the day she started digging. Not all chams are going to make practice holes, mine didn't, she just went ahead and dug one hole and stuck to it until she layed her eggs.