What do I do? Help.

[SaintJimmy]

There is a pet store in my local area that I go to for crickets sometimes, and just when I am bored I look at the kittens they have.

But today...

I saw this veiled.

They had a bearded dragon in a cage before, with sand in the bottom, and it constantly had 20~ crickets in it and poop and a water bowl. They never even put UVB on it. I assume it died.

Now they have this veiled, which apparently is their pet (not for sale... what can we do for it?) and do NOT put the lights on him until dark (even at 7:00 it is still light out during the summer). They have substrate that hasn't been cleaned in weeks. There is a dog bowl at the bottom with water and poop in it.

There is 1 small exo terra vine in there at the bottom, but it is inaccessible to the veiled.

He has only that very thin vine to hang onto. He will hang upside down like that for a long time until he finally lets go and has to hang onto another branch. Maybe sometimes he goes all the way to the bottom to get to the big vine he can actually grip.

The water bottle providing his water wasn't even dripping.

I contacted USDA via email and if there is no response I will call their HQ to ask where to file a complaint against them, but that is all I can do by myself so far.

I was thinking maybe print up a caresheet full of advice and stuff and leave it on the cage as I leave with a magnet.

They think they are reptile experts and aren't very nice. I am only a teen so when I walk in there the lady gets this disgusted look and just sits and eats her plates upon plates of food.

She has around 6 "volunteers" (around 2 are her family that just sit in the store and poke at the poorly cared for birds) and the others just stand at the register and give crickets and run the cash register.

She doesn't do much. Both the owner and her daughter (both adults) ignore you until you come up to buy something, even then they won't make eye contact, unless there is an adult present.

I assume that they assume that I am immature and don't know what I'm talking about.

My brother and I, every time we walk in there, have to look at the horrible conditions their birds and reptiles are in. The puppies are fine. The kitties are fine. Reptiles?

Always no heat until dark, leaving gross water in the cages, leaving crickets running rampant.

It's disgusting. Not as bad as the *last* reptile store I posted about, but still disgusting that they are spreading the message, "This is how you care for your pet"

Is there anything else I can do besides:

a) get ignored if I talk to this lady about her pet

b) call the USDA and complain (they probably won't care enough to do anything... can anyone tell me otherwise?)

c) leave a caresheet I type up on the cage with a magnet

???

I cannot offer to care for their pet, as it's their pet, it's not for sale, and I honestly cannot foster another chameleon after last time. My father won't have another pet.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[Leslie11]

Boycott

Maybe someone can give you some advice on boycotting the place.

 

[FlChamMom]

Emily, you have a caring heart and I know with your knowledge of chameleons it is hard to walk away from an animal in need. The owners will probably not do anything to change their husbandry regardless of what anyone, adult or teen, said. As hard as it is, use another pet store, do not give them your money.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I understand that they probably won't do anything but I am still going to file a complaint and then at least leave a caresheet, even if they see it as an insult, I tried to help him.

They have had birds in tiny cages (had a huge African grey in a teensy cage and it was going insane) and reptiles without heat and other things for such a long time. I only go there if I absolutely have to.

My two other options are petco or petsmart. Petco actually has a guy working now who knows about reptiles and cares so now we go there

 

[laurie]

If you are going to give it a try, print the care sheet for veilds from the care resources to the left of the screen. Put it in a envelope and mail it with no return address. Also include the web address to get on chameleonforums.com

Call who ever the local authority is regarding humane treatment of animals for your area. If you don't know call your local police and ask them.

 

[SaintJimmy]

If you are going to give it a try, print the care sheet for veilds from the care resources to the left of the screen. Put it in a envelope and mail it with no return address. Also include the web address to get on chameleonforums.com

Call who ever the local authority is regarding humane treatment of animals for your area. If you don't know call your local police and ask them.

Thank you very much Laurie.

If they were actually selling him I would definitely try to gently remind them that he isn't in optimal condition and I would be willing to take him in and try to get a low price. I would buy temporary things for his enclosure and make sure he got care until someone could pick him up for free. But they aren't selling so it's not option.. also after brave my father takes extra begging to help animals

 

[teejayteej]

There is a pet store here in town that put their chams in with other lizards. (the really cheep ones) then I have seen frogs in there too. I have tried to tell them that this is not the proper care for them, but they will do as they want they are just selling them anyway. Most pets stores don't care, they think they know more than you anyway.
But then I go there anyway to get my crickets... I get 1000 for $24 and they will special order feeders too, for when the babies hatch and I need little food. I just don't let them get my babies.babies. They do how every give out my business cards to people needing advice on how to care for their chams.
so you go figure ... they know I know enough to give out my number to people with questions, but then don't take my advice themselves.
Pet stores just blow my mind anymore .... never will understand why you would get in a business with animals and not care about the care and treatment.
If reptiles are not their main bread and butter sales then most don't care. They treat them as filler stock so that they have a variety of animals.

 

[SaintJimmy]

There is a pet store here in town that put their chams in with other lizards. (the really cheep ones) then I have seen frogs in there too. I have tried to tell them that this is not the proper care for them, but they will do as they want they are just selling them anyway. Most pets stores don't care, they think they know more than you anyway.
But then I go there anyway to get my crickets... I get 1000 for $24 and they will special order feeders too, for when the babies hatch and I need little food. I just don't let them get my babies.babies. They do how every give out my business cards to people needing advice on how to care for their chams.
so you go figure ... they know I know enough to give out my number to people with questions, but then don't take my advice themselves.
Pet stores just blow my mind anymore .... never will understand why you would get in a business with animals and not care about the care and treatment.
If reptiles are not their main bread and butter sales then most don't care. They treat them as filler stock so that they have a variety of animals.

The thing is, half their pets aren't even on sale.

They act as baby sitters for the pets people absolutely 100% cannot take care of for months on end.

There was a beardie in there before the one I mentioned, and they were "just taking care of it while the owner was gone" so it wasn't for sale. Same went for half their animals. And not to mention the ones they were watching were still in horrible care.

 

[Renn]

You obviously know about husbandry for chameleons and they do not.

IF you want to, and feel comfortable, you could bring them a caresheet and just strike up a conversation. But it sounds as if they don't care and a caresheet and a discussion on how to care properly for their animals won't help, because they just don't care. But then again, maybe they don't know? So mail it anonymously see if they change anything.

If there are other animals not getting proper care I'd definitely complain to someone. It's hard to figure out what is the right place to complain to to get results or even find someone who cares, but calling your local Department of Wildlife or Animal shelter might be able to help or give you a lead on what to do.

Some people just don't know better, or sickeningly just don't care and want money and they'll do the absolute bare minimum to keep the animals alive and "looking" healthy to get them sold.

It's a frustrating situation for sure. We all hate seeing animals suffer due to ignorance that could easily be corrected but isn't.

We had a similar situation here with our local reptile store. The people there were always rude to me and scoffed at me when I suggested that they were housing a tarantula improperly or told them about a dead animal in their cage. But word gets around fast around animal people and they got boycotted. It's only now after 2 years that it's under new management and the animals are finally cared properly for now.

I hope you can get some solution for your worry, if anything I hope they don't cause anymore harm. I definitely wouldn't shop there anymore.

 

[hpc1979]

There's a lot you can do. Boycotting this store is simply just a bad option. Let's look of the reality of the situation. Its most likely this pet store doesn't specialize in reptiles. That fact that they have a reptibreeze cage tells me that they have some idea of how to care for chameleons at least at a minimum. I hear it all the time... especially from Chameleon owners, people are so quick to rag on a pet shop on how they lack knowledge and skill it takes to care for the chameleons that they are selling, and that they are caring for their chameleons wrong. The funny thing is I see all kinds of mistakes being made throughout the entire pet industry. So my suggestion it to help them understand what it takes to raise a healthy chameleon. Tell them about this forum. Point out good things and the bad things that they doing with their chameleons. Ask them if they are having a problems with their reptiles dying. If they are, point out the problems. Stress to them the fatal things they are doing wrong. Believe it or not, I joined this forum from some good advice from a pet shop owner. The funny thing is, someone told him, someone like one of us, about the mistakes he was making with his Geckos, ball pythons, and chameleons. That person also told him where he could go for help and do some research. He changed his reptile section up completely. I bought my first chameleon from him, and then he sent me here. Sometimes, all we have to do is stop being afraid and speak up. They may actually welcome your advice. Just don't do nothing.

 

[hpc1979]

I understand that they probably won't do anything but I am still going to file a complaint and then at least leave a caresheet, even if they see it as an insult, I tried to help him.

They have had birds in tiny cages (had a huge African grey in a teensy cage and it was going insane) and reptiles without heat and other things for such a long time. I only go there if I absolutely have to.

My two other options are petco or petsmart. Petco actually has a guy working now who knows about reptiles and cares so now we go there

This to me sounds like a budget problem. I do see this with a lot of mom and pop pet stores. All those items cost money. They don't understand about investing in their store. Stores like this, see those items as wasted money. Cages cost money. Bigger cages cost even more money. Husbandry cost money. What they don't realize is that people recognize this stuff. They think that spend money on items they get no return from is bad business. They reality is, you need to spend money to make money. People will only buy healthy animals. However, if they made their products look more appealing, they might end up have the opposite problem...never having those products in stock.

 

[SaintJimmy]

You obviously know about husbandry for chameleons and they do not.

IF you want to, and feel comfortable, you could bring them a caresheet and just strike up a conversation. But it sounds as if they don't care and a caresheet and a discussion on how to care properly for their animals won't help, because they just don't care. But then again, maybe they don't know? So mail it anonymously see if they change anything.

If there are other animals not getting proper care I'd definitely complain to someone. It's hard to figure out what is the right place to complain to to get results or even find someone who cares, but calling your local Department of Wildlife or Animal shelter might be able to help or give you a lead on what to do.

Some people just don't know better, or sickeningly just don't care and want money and they'll do the absolute bare minimum to keep the animals alive and "looking" healthy to get them sold.

It's a frustrating situation for sure. We all hate seeing animals suffer due to ignorance that could easily be corrected but isn't.

We had a similar situation here with our local reptile store. The people there were always rude to me and scoffed at me when I suggested that they were housing a tarantula improperly or told them about a dead animal in their cage. But word gets around fast around animal people and they got boycotted. It's only now after 2 years that it's under new management and the animals are finally cared properly for now.

I hope you can get some solution for your worry, if anything I hope they don't cause anymore harm. I definitely wouldn't shop there anymore.

They will not talk seriously with me. I try to make small talk about it before trying to give them some tips but they just don't take me seriously because I'm just "that girl who is a reptile nerd who comes in here every so often" and you can see the way the owner looks at me and she disapproves of my very existence. Any time someone who isn't a puppy or kitty person walks in there, they change their attitude from good to bad.

Also I am going to mail it anonymous and report to USDA. Not only their reptiles are getting bad care, but their birds are CRAMPED into cages with one another and there are birds who need large cages who are stuck in little tiny things with no mobility at all.

Also their puppies all sit in a window box all day and try to get out. They have a hamster water dispenser, gross newspaper shaving things for bedding, and there are 5-9 of them in a small window box together on hot days. The cats aren't much better off.

They are in prooobably 24x24x48 ish cages. But there are little ledges and things for them. There are two of the cages and litter boxes in each. There are usually around 4-6 kittens or cats in each. I guess that's not so bad but yeah. Not setting a good example.

There's a lot you can do. Boycotting this store is simply just a bad option. Let's look of the reality of the situation. Its most likely this pet store doesn't specialize in reptiles. That fact that they have a reptibreeze cage tells me that they have some idea of how to care for chameleons at least at a minimum. I hear it all the time... especially from Chameleon owners, people are so quick to rag on a pet shop on how they lack knowledge and skill it takes to care for the chameleons that they are selling, and that they are caring for their chameleons wrong. The funny thing is I see all kinds of mistakes being made throughout the entire pet industry. So my suggestion it to help them understand what it takes to raise a healthy chameleon. Tell them about this forum. Point out good things and the bad things that they doing with their chameleons. Ask them if they are having a problems with their reptiles dying. If they are, point out the problems. Stress to them the fatal things they are doing wrong. Believe it or not, I joined this forum from some good advice from a pet shop owner. The funny thing is, someone told him, someone like one of us, about the mistakes he was making with his Geckos, ball pythons, and chameleons. That person also told him where he could go for help and do some research. He changed his reptile section up completely. I bought my first chameleon from him, and then he sent me here. Sometimes, all we have to do is stop being afraid and speak up. They may actually welcome your advice. Just don't do nothing.

Read my above posts please...

These people at the pet store don't want to be taught. I don't think there is really reasoning with them.

I tried to make small talk about reptile supplies with her before but she always shrugs me off as to get me away ASAP or something

 

[hpc1979]

I read your follow up statement after responding to your original post.

What can you going to don then? Some people are just not good business people at all. Eventually, their bad business practices will catch up with them, they typically always do. Most times, business's like this don't survive.

 

[junglefries]

social media

Being a teen I would assume you know the ins and outs of all the social media sites. You could trying starting something on each site you access. I am not sure if naming the specific place would land you in trouble or not. I would think not as news stories happen all the time. Maybe ask your rents first, make sure they are fine with it. I would hate to be responsible for your restriction. Being in CA it would seem that you could quite easily get some following from twitter or facebook, or others. You do have a great state for hippies and other people who can get behind a cause. The hippie thing was obviously a humor attempt. Try it, you never know. If they are as mom and pop, as led to believe, any negative coverage would be unwanted by them.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I don't know if starting a boycott on social media would be considered slander or not.

I don't really feel comfortable doing that until I know it is 100% legal

Anyway I have had a few people besides myself actually call and report them to the USDA already and I have posted pictures on facebook of the cage but that was it. People on facebook commented and said it was horrible of them to keep almost all their animals like that. But I doubt anything on facebook would help.

 

[Carlton]

I don't know if starting a boycott on social media would be considered slander or not.

I don't really feel comfortable doing that until I know it is 100% legal

Anyway I have had a few people besides myself actually call and report them to the USDA already and I have posted pictures on facebook of the cage but that was it. People on facebook commented and said it was horrible of them to keep almost all their animals like that. But I doubt anything on facebook would help.

I would find out who in that city has responsibility for inspecting and licensing businesses that sell live animals. Depending on where you live it could be done at the city, county, borough, or even state level. For example, in Orange County, CA, the city health department was the main agency that carried out animal control and protective services, inspected pet shops and issued citations for neglect and poor conditions. Call your city office and ask how to file a complaint about a pet shop. Find your local animal shelter or humane society and ask THEM who inspects and cites pet shops. They probably know. The Better Business Bureau for your area is also a place to complain about their practices, and it's public. Also, ask to see the shop's current license...it should tell you who issued it. It probably has to be posted anyway. I very much doubt USDA has anything to do with a retail business like this.

 

[ridgebax1]

I would call the Humane Society or the ASPCA; Businesses are required to provide access to clean water and provide accessible food. Even if they cannot convince them to change their set up they can cite them for neglect. You may also want to contact one of your local news channels, they are always looking for stories and are especially eager (at least here in the 'Burgh) to cover animal related issues.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I would find out who in that city has responsibility for inspecting and licensing businesses that sell live animals. Depending on where you live it could be done at the city, county, borough, or even state level. For example, in Orange County, CA, the city health department was the main agency that carried out animal control and protective services, inspected pet shops and issued citations for neglect and poor conditions. Call your city office and ask how to file a complaint about a pet shop. Find your local animal shelter or humane society and ask THEM who inspects and cites pet shops. They probably know. The Better Business Bureau for your area is also a place to complain about their practices, and it's public. Also, ask to see the shop's current license...it should tell you who issued it. It probably has to be posted anyway. I very much doubt USDA has anything to do with a retail business like this.

I would call the Humane Society or the ASPCA; Businesses are required to provide access to clean water and provide accessible food. Even if they cannot convince them to change their set up they can cite them for neglect. You may also want to contact one of your local news channels, they are always looking for stories and are especially eager (at least here in the 'Burgh) to cover animal related issues.

thank you both

 

[SycoSquirl]

I would say contact your local police on who to contact for mistreatment of animals. They should be sued for the inadequate care they are providing for the people stupid enough to leave their animals with them as babysitters. No animal should have to live a life as miserable as you are describing, its inhumane. They need to get shut down and their ability to open another pet store revoked. They should also be sued for selling animals in less then perfect health to unknowing customers.

 

[diananana]

This kind of thing is the worst combination of horrifying and so, so upsetting. I'm so glad that at least someone has noticed the store's deplorable conditions--that's step 1. I would anonymously leave a professional looking care sheet on the front desk when they're not looking with a post it note that says "YOUR VEILED IS SUFFERING"

then, set up a Facebook page called something like "[shop name] real conditions - town, state" then simply post pictures of the horrible setups in there, perhaps with captions with corrections. No slander or libel, because it's pictures--straight fact. Encourage people to contact them with corrections. Good luck!!! Keep us posted!!!