What am i doing wrong?!

[jpowell86]

I have researched hours trying to find the answer to this issue but I have found nothing that gives any answers as to why this happening. All I can say is that I will keep looking and I hope that you figure it out before me. Must be terrible to feel helpless with the little guys. Very strange situation. Do you think that since they were underdeveloped that their bodies don't process the needed nutrients correctly? Just a thought? Very sorry this is happening.

 

[Metal725]

Thanks for doing research as well JPowell86. I do, i feel terrible. I feel im doing everything right but its just not enough. I have a 2nd clutch from this female and they are at the same time frame where these babies hatched and i still dont see anything inside the eggs so the 2nd clutch seems like its going full term. That is my only reason in why these little ones arent doing well is because they hatched prematurely. Im at a loss and i dont expect any of these to survive even though they are currently alive and well and then dead the next day. I just continue doing what i have to and just wait and see what happens.

 

[Kingkush]

by the look of the one picture of the baby face on almost looks like chest edema..i would need..too see more pics and showing the throatss.side and front shots.but would be temps in my guess.you should have a sensor so whats your humidty and temps running at

 

[Kingkush]

tell me your high and lows..my guess is your to dry too cold a deadly combo..think about this its less humid in tree canopy than on or near the forest floor..you should be running humid and warm. Right now in the town of ambilobe as an example its 90F and 70% RH and much higher at the lower level in the forest where the babies hang out. Its 100% much of the time there. If you dont have sensors in the environment you have no idea whats going on..myself i use madagascar weather and sensors and adjust to it as my guide not books or random people..it works.

 

[Kingkush]

"temps dip to around 65-70" i think thats too low going by your estimate 80-85 dnd 70 at bottom 10-15 diff..65-70 at night that would bring it to 55 at the bottom if there really is 10-15 degree gradient..where are they sleeping?

 

[JGuinan007]

"temps dip to around 65-70" i think thats too low going by your estimate 80-85 dnd 70 at bottom 10-15 diff..65-70 at night that would bring it to 55 at the bottom if there really is 10-15 degree gradient..where are they sleeping?

I would try this

 

[Metal725]

Thanks KingKush and JGuinan007

I did notice that the neck area on some of the babies seems swollen or larger than normal.

They tend to sleep in the middle to upper portion of the cage. I have a temp gauge on the outside of the cage and the house temps are usually around 70-75. The gauge inside their baby bin is 70 at the bottom. i have a 53 Watt bulb over their cage, about 6-8 inches away from their highest point in the enclosure and the current humidity is 55%. They are in the same room as our 3 year old Veiled so they have similar surroundings. At 3 months old, are they too far damaged to reverse that Chest Edema if thats what it is? Should i try raising their temps at night using a red infrared bulbs? Im hoping i can fix this and not lose anymore.

 

[Metal725]

Here are a few pics...

 

[MissLissa]

Have you thought of having a necropsy done on one or two of the deceased babies?

Having a vet swab a live baby, skin tape test, etc may also give results. The stress of a vet trip may be to much for that particular baby, but it might just save the rest of the clutch if they find fungal or bacterial growth there. The only time I've ever seen anything like this was several years ago with my first large group of young Tribolonotus novaeguines (crocodile skinks). If I hadn't brought one to the vet and (basically) sacrificed it- it succumbed to stress and illness on the ride home- the rest would never have survived.

Has anyone alerted @ferretinmyshoes to this thread? She is, by all accounts, pretty fantastic.

 

[Kingkush]

Again hard to tell on such little ones,,the
20160102_164543 picture does look to be bit swollen around throat.. as far as i know chest edema in chameleons cause has not been specifically defined but i have had chams get it in dry climates as well as too cold of conditions. Here is a little snippet off a vet site about lung airway stuff

Lung and Airway Disorders
Reptiles: Heart and Blood Vessel Disorders) may develop in severe or prolonged cases. Treatment consists of improving environmental factors (such as cleanliness and temperature) and starting whole system antibiotics. A veterinarian will be able to advise you on the proper antibiotic treatment. Reptiles with respiratory infections should be kept at the mid to upper end of their preferred temperature range. Increased temperatures are important not only to stimulate the immune system but also to help increase the output of mucus in the respiratory tract. Turtles often have an underlying vitamin A deficiency, and an injection by a veterinarian may help. Many turtles treated for pneumonia fail to improve until after treatment for vitamin A deficiency.

take a look at this chart it has some historical data from ambilobe here you can see the averages so based on that data look at the higher averages and keep your babies in that range make an environment plan..thats what i would do...i have been caring for these guys now 28 years and have lost clutches in past so i know what your going through.

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?s=15107

Ambiliobe
Average Temperature
Years on Record: 10

​

ANNUAL JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC
F 80 81 81 82 82 80 77 76 77 79 82 83 82
Average High Temperature
Years on Record: 10

​

ANNUAL JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC
F 91 89 89 91 91 91 89 88 89 91 93 94 92
Average Low Temperature
Years on Record: 10

​

ANNUAL JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC
F 70 74 74 74 73 70 66 64 65 67 71 73 73
fyi im currently developing software for the care of chameleons.that includes the environment tuned to the islands.ive told a couple people about it including Christopher V. Anderson and Richard Griffiths no one showed any intrest but im doing it regardless as it will save many animals and it does not exist. If anyone is interested in contributing to my project let me know.

 

[Kingkush]

Also the software will be free

 

[JGuinan007]

Do you dust crickets at every feeding? You may try doing it every other feeding most times edema is caused by over-supplementation of vitamins.

 

[Kingkush]

Based off the above historical data there should be no questions about temp ranges,so make your self temperature plans/templates ranges based off this data thats what i do

 

[Metal725]

Do you dust crickets at every feeding? You may try doing it every other feeding most times edema is caused by over-supplementation of vitamins.

I was doing every feeding but changed it to every few days when i noticed things weren't right.

Based off the above historical data there should be no questions about temp ranges,so make your self temperature plans/templates ranges based off this data thats what i do

Thank you for the info and that software you're working on sounds great!

 

[Kingkush]

Thank you for the info and that software you're working on sounds great!

No problem my friend..yes its going to be very useful..i actually have most of the code done for plants..so its very quick to convert. Also will have genetics trading feature ,feeding alerts,genetics(lineage) and age tracking,medical records,breeding logs,egg mangement,visual assesements,basically a complete care application im funding the project myself. Nothing exists like its my brain child as well as my plant app. Even without a physical sensor my free app has functionality if you chhoose just to use animal mangement functions..so its not required to buy a sensor i have a custom pcb sensor being designed currently 80% complete. but im also in talks with some sesnor companies..the big zoo veriosn is solved but the system is 5k ..im trying to get the sensor at a reasonable price for home users like under 100$ Will keep you posted as i will need a few beta testers..peace

 

[MissLissa]

How are the babies doing? Any updates?

 

[JGuinan007]

Any word on how they are doing now?

 

[Metal725]

MissLissa and JGuinan007 and everyone else following this thread,

Since my last update, I'm at 11 of the 18 babies. Ive swapped out the coil bulbs for a linear UVB. Their appetites have been better and they seem a little more active. Temps and Humidity levels are still the same so it has to have been the UVB bulb since its the only thing I've changed. I do plan on getting some higher wattage bulbs to raise the heat due to cold temps in my area lately. I was also VERY excited to see 2 of the babies have shed and it looks like a couple others are about to start. Fingers crossed that they don't have any permanent problems due to their small size and issues since birth.

 

[JGuinan007]

Awesome glad to hear you haven't lost anymore. Shedding is good is the "dry skin" on head gone after the shed?

 

[jpowell86]

I was also VERY excited to see 2 of the babies have shed and it looks like a couple others are about to start. Fingers crossed that they don't have any permanent problems due to their small size and issues since birth.

That has to be such a good feeling to see them shed.....just to know that they are growing!! I'm also curious about the patches on the head and if they are still there post shed?