Wet substrate?

[litahudak]

Hi all, this is my first post. I always had a bearded dragon or some sort of snake, I have to admit that having a chameleon is a whole different sort of reptile! I did a few weeks worth of research (I'm a marine bio major and have made the mistake of getting in over my head with animals before unfortunately) before buying my baby veiled. Today is my little lady's third day at home. I've read a lot about having some sort of dripping system in their tank and so I copied someone's idea and punched a hole in a cup above her tank. It was dripping too quickly and so I put some electrical tape in there just to regulate it a little more. I'm just curious what anyone's opinion is of how wet the cage should be? Should the substrate become wet? At the pet store they recommended misting and even pouring some water on the substrate, and they seemd pretty knowledgeable, but I'd rather get opinions from people who actually own them. At night the walls are always dry, but the substrate is a little damp so I'm assuming I'm using too much water. Any suggestions?

P.s. so far she has been great. She's explored from top to bottom of her cage and I'm amazed at how quickly she can catch crickets! She seems to like to be handled but I read it can stress them so I'm trying to not overdue it.. I made sure in the pet store I handled a few to see how differently they reacted. She'll watch me but she doesn't get dark like some of them did and she just likes to climb around on my hand. Like I said, I'd handle her more, but I've read a lot that it stresses them, though I'm sure they're all different personality wise and how much they'll tolerate. If anyone needs to see a picture please let me know! Thanks so much in advance.

 

[seanUTD]

There shouldn't be a substrate in the enclosure at all... Bare bottom floors or paper towels (at MOST) are the best options... Substrates can lead 1) to impaction if ingested 2) Bacteria from fecals, dead insects, etc... 3) Make it IMPOSSIBLE to clean...

My advice, take out the substrate all together and if you have live plants, cover the soil with large river rocks bigger than her head..

Hope this helps

EDIT: If your cham is close to sexual maturity, 6 months "usually", can be sooner, a laying bin at LEAST 12" deep filled with play sand will be needed for egg laying, here is an AWESOME blog about veiled care by JannB https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[litahudak]

Okay, thanks. Also I've read the figues everyone posts on here. Right now her home is 82-85 degrees Farenheit (I live in south florida) and her humidity is almost 80%. From what I've read on here that seems to be higher than most.. But right now she's hanging on the top of her cage and has darkened her color a little more.. She seems absolutely fine. And I know they have some control of their body temperature. So I'm guessing she's just fine? She was hatched down here so I guess she's used to the warmer temperatures? I could lower it but she seems to be enjoying herself just fine, she doesn't hide under leaves or anything like that.

 

[fluxlizard]

At that size, she could really get all the water she needs from misting. Mist and let the enclosure and substrate dry completely (paper towel for substrate if any substrate is used at her size) and then repeat so you have wet/dry cycle going. Constant damp conditions invite problems. At the same time if she is allowed to dry out too long she will dehydrate.

A drip cup in addition is fine and when she is a little larger probably necessity unless you get a real misting system.

You can regulate the flow from your drip cup by pressing the pin in less far. The tip of a pin is shaped like a " V " so the further in the tip goes, the larger the hole and the faster the drip. If you press in only slightly, smaller hole, slower drip rate.

I used to use drip cups all the time years ago- I found the best way was to get a pothos vine and drape a leaf over a glass catch bowl. The drip leaves the cup on top of the cage, hits the leaf and rolls into the catch bowl below with a splash. The lizard drinks at the leaf and later the bowl. Some veileds even learn to drink when it isn't dripping into the bowl.

Change the bowl daily and make sure especially with a baby it isn't deep enough for her to crawl in and drown. A few tiny branches in a bowl can help her climb out.

 

[Elizadolots]

It's probably best to establish a drainage system. It can be as simple as drilling a hole in the bottom and positioning the cage over a rubber container to catch the water.

If you are going to have a "catch" bowl in the cage, cover it with nylon mesh or tulle secured with a rubber band, just in case your chameleon falls in the bowl.

 

[JackP308]

Substrate shouldnt be saturated 24hrs a day. needs time to dry up not completely. Good dry wet balance. Usually with lights on it helps maintain not a sopping wet ground. Also try to mist leaves and plants and not the cage itself usually helps with those issues. I use hydroton expanded clay balls on the bottom for a layer of drainage if I do use substrate like coco fiber.

There shouldn't be a substrate in the enclosure at all... Bare bottom floors or paper towels (at MOST) are the best options... Substrates can lead 1) to impaction if ingested 2) Bacteria from fecals, dead insects, etc... 3) Make it IMPOSSIBLE to clean...

My advice, take out the substrate all together and if you have live plants, cover the soil with large river rocks bigger than her head..

Hope this helps

EDIT: If your cham is close to sexual maturity, 6 months "usually", can be sooner, a laying bin at LEAST 12" deep filled with play sand will be needed for egg laying, here is an AWESOME blog about veiled care by JannB https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

My chameleons are perfectly heathy on substrate of coco fiber and hydroton and I have live moss growing. Its actually easier to clean . There is little if no risk of impaction from that coco just as much as eating dirt out of the plants that most keep in enclosure. I think post like yours are funny though. Glad you got the Chameleon Forum rule book down though.

River rock actually is easy to carry bacteria and disease therrfore not a good source to cover anything with. If your so worried about all the other issues thought id let you know.


When young yes its easier wipe up with paper towels ect. But it gets old tedious and just nasty. So when they get a little older I move them into natural habitats, except my veiled still gets paper towels. I guess no one way to do things. What works best for your situation.

 

[tkilgour]

Substrate shouldnt be saturated 24hrs a day. needs time to dry up not completely. Good dry wet balance. Usually with lights on it helps maintain not a sopping wet ground. Also try to mist leaves and plants and not the cage itself usually helps with those issues. I use hydroton expanded clay balls on the bottom for a layer of drainage if I do use substrate like coco fiber.





My chameleons are perfectly heathy on substrate of coco fiber and hydroton and I have live moss growing. Its actually easier to clean . There is little if no risk of impaction from that coco just as much as eating dirt out of the plants that most keep in enclosure. I think post like yours are funny though. Glad you got the Chameleon Forum rule book down though.

River rock actually is easy to carry bacteria and disease therrfore not a good source to cover anything with. If your so worried about all the other issues thought id let you know.


When young yes its easier wipe up with paper towels ect. But it gets old tedious and just nasty. So when they get a little older I move them into natural habitats, except my veiled still gets paper towels. I guess no one way to do things. What works best for your situation.

Jack, you raise a good point. There is not 1 exact way for keeping chameleons.

 

[litahudak]

Thanks, guys! I liked the substrate because they had the chameleons in there from where I got it. I guess I should clarify it's not small at all.. The pieces are her size if not bigger! If it could be a problem with her I'll take it out but so far so good. I will cut back on the water usage, though, I kind of figured it was overkill. I'll let it dry out for a few days and see how that goes.

 

[seanUTD]

I have to say it's not the forum rule book... From how I learned and many people think it's the understood norm... Also I'm very interested to find out where this information on river rocks causing bacteria? Another norm that you seem to be wading against... Also you said once they get older... The OP was not asking about a older chameleon he was asking about a very young veiled which you yourself said you keep with bare...

 

[chamguy]

River rocks can have cracks and rough surfaces where bacteria can live. Especially in a humid enviorment. I don't know why they would be used regardless to bacteria. They seem hard to clean.

 

[fluxlizard]

River rocks kind of have a history of being popular among some zoos and a few breeders of larger lizards (I haven't really seen them used with smaller lizards like chameleons, but I did see someone use them in their potted plants to keep their geckos out). They are easy enough to clean- usually they are just hosed down with a pressure nozzle on a garden hose at such institutions and the poop washes through and out the bottom. I don't like em though. Just the look I suppose and I haven't seen many wild lizards living in dry river beds...

If you want to something like the coco fiber substrate, I'd recommend waiting until your lizard is much larger. Yours must be what 3" or something? Risk of accidental impaction from substrate ingestion is reduced drastically the larger the lizard is. The larger the lizard, the easier it is for it to pass substrate like the coco fiber without problem should it get a little here and there when feeding or whatever...

Personally, I keep things very simple- no substrate for babies, and big wide shallow potted plants (16" wide pots I think) with a 1" or so layer of peat moss over the dirt for adults. So I guess I sort of am using a substrate, but not all over the bottom of the enclosure...

The suggestion to cover the catch bowl with a screen is a great one at this size...