Weak Walk

Marley

New Member
My female 3 1/2 month old veiled seems to have a "weak" walk. She sort of trembles when she walks. She also seems to keep her head down on branches instead of walking around while exploring.

I feed about 7-14 crickets a day and mist 4 times a day. I dust the crickets every time with herpavitive calcium.

Is this a sign of M.B.D? Cause her tounge doesnt seem to be weak and i know that is a sign.

Thanks.
 
Yes... they do have a "leaf walk" style sometimes, but I think it foolish for neither posters to alert Marley that the descriptions he provided are synonymous with some of the symptoms of Metabolic Bone disease.

There's more to preventing MDB than simply dusting, and without Vitamin D3 the calcium is useless. It's also been suggested that without a cool night period that chameleons cannot absorb the supplements we give them. There are many simple things that can throw the whole thing out of wack.

Marley, you should look into this more thoroughly in my opinion.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
Chameleons have what I call a waddle-walk...they put one foot forward (and the opposite back one at the same time) and when it almost touches the branch they move it back and then put it forward and grasp the branch. Then they do the same with the other pair of feet. This gives them a shaky (back and forth) motion that looks a bit like a leaf wiggling with the wind.

If their walk is shaky or they tremble and they are not holding the body up off the branch, then there is a possibility that its MBD. Sometimes the tongue doesn't work properly when they have it, but its usually one of the later symptoms in my experience. Does she have straight arms from the elbow to the shoulder, back leg from the knee to the ankle and knee to where the leg joins the body? Is her casque solid or flexible? Is her jaw firm?

You mention dusting with herptavite calcium....herptavite is a vitamin powder. I use it twice a month on my veiled chameleons insects. I dust at almost every feeding with a phosphorous-free calcium and because my chameleons only get their UVB from florescent tube lights, I dust with a calcium/D3 powder twice a month.

Insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so by dusting the insects with calcium, it helps to make up for it. D3 from supplements and preformed vitamin A can build up in the system, so using herptavite with its beta carotene source of vitamin A avoids that...but caution needs to be taken that you don't overdo the D3.

Its also important to gutload your insects to make sure that your chameleon gets healthy food to eat and to make sure that the basking temperatures are correct so that the chameleon can digest its food properly.

Phosphorous, vitamin D3, calcium and vitamin A are all important in the bone health of chameleons and need to be in balance.

A vet should be able to tell you if your chameleon has MBD. If you correct the imbalances (if your chameleon does indeed have MBD) and the damage isn't bad, she should be able to live a long life.
 

Marley

New Member
Yes I know all about the "leaf walk" and that is not what she is doing. Its more of an uncertanty of where to put her feet. She also seems slumped over as if she is "depressed".

There's more to preventing MDB than simply dusting, and without Vitamin D3 the calcium is useless. It's also been suggested that without a cool night period that chameleons cannot absorb the supplements we give them. There are many simple things that can throw the whole thing out of wack.

Marley, you should look into this more thoroughly in my opinion.

Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on other ways to treat besides calcium?
 
My only suggestion for treating MBD symptoms with a substance is to have a quality vet intervene. They will be able to prescribe drugs and give guidance on supplementing, schedules and which products to use.

Aside from that you'll need to review your setup and husbandry in it's entirety.

Also, Kinyonga gave some valuable info, review it well.
 

evertech11

New Member
chameleons can get M.B.D. even if you dust regurally. you have to provide UVB rays from an ultraviolet reptile lamp so that they can metabolize the calcium.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
If it is MBD...then a vet can give the chameleon shots of calcium. This has to be done for several weeks and then it can be followed with a shot of calcitonin which draws the calcium back into the bones. THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE BY A VET...because the calcitonin draws the calcium out of the blood quickly and can cause shock and death if not done properly.

You can also buy a liquid calcium at the drugstore (calcium gluconate)...but you need to be sure that its MBD so that you are not overdoing the calcium. This will give a slower result. This calcium is syrupy and care needs to be taken in giving it to the chameleon too.

Correcting the calcium levels without correcting the reason why it happened in the first place will only give your chameleon a temporary reprieve....so please go over your husbandry. IMHO being that your chameleon is so young, it could be that its not your husbandry but something like the health of the parents or even something to do with the incubation.
 

Marley

New Member
New Cage info, Just finished building today.

Mist 4-5 times a day, have dripper on 2 times a day with warm water.

Cage is 4 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet.

Large ficus and another large plant, (forgot name). Many places to climb and hide.

Basking spot 80-85 degress F.

Uvb light on 12 hour light cycle.

10-15 gutloaded and occasionally dusted crickets a day. Gutload with lettuce and other gutloads.

I think the switch to the bigger cage might help her to move around. But now on both of my chams there is a black spot that comes up every now and then.


Thanks for the info everyone.
 

scooter4n

Established Member
I have one dark wall and one light wall in my cage, and my cham (Rex) when he moves on to the darker wall he takes that dark shade with darker sport, but as soon as he on the plant, he's all nice and green. Just watch your chams little more to know their behavier
Hope this helps.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
Can you post a picture of the black spot? You don't house the two chameleons together, do you?

The plants you use should be non-toxic in case the chameleon eats the leaves or the insects nibble on them. They should be well-washed (both sides of the leaves).

The light from the Uvb light should not pass through glass or plastic...and the place/area that she sits in most often should be no more than 12" from the UVB light.

You said..."Gutload with lettuce and other gutloads"...Romaine lettuce is okay to provide moisture, but there are other things like greens (kale, dandelion greens, collards, endive, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (sweet red pepper, sweet potato, carrot, squash, etc.) that are more nutritious.
 
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