*Warning: Graphic photos* Need Help! Don't know What to Do!

[Carlton]

Cat bites are very serious injuries. That leg probably could have been amputated successfully when it first happened and this chameleon gone on to live a relatively normal life. But putting aside the wound, cat bites have a second component. What is often worse than the injury itself is that cat saliva has a lot of very nasty bacteria in it and the secondary infection that comes with even a tiny cat bite can be enough to cause death by itself. A cat bite can kill a totally healthy bird in less than 48 hours just from the bacterial infection. If a dog bites a person in the vet field you clean it up and let it heal. If a cat bites a person you go straight to the emergency room or urgent care because you have to be on antibiotics as soon as possible! Just to highlight what a little bacteria can do to bigger organisms. So they are serious injuries in reptiles as well. This little guy didn't stand a chance by the time this picture was taken because I can tell that wound is not fresh.

Thanks for bringing up this aspect ferret. One reason I end up dispatching birds or other small wild things a cat has mauled rather than treat them is because of the infections and the suffering and fear the creature would have to endure.

And, please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't chams have partially hollow bones connected to the respiratory system air sacs similar to birds? If a bone is crushed and exposed to air, animal bites, dirt, etc. there is a greater risk of generalized respiratory infection. This can often be impossible to stop.

Anyway, thank you OP for taking the little guy to a vet and trying to help. I know it was hard for you but you did the right thing!

 

[babyjoe]

Sad post indeed the little guy is better off now I feel.even if the leg could have been amputated and the cham saved.could a 3 legged cham have a proper quality of life considering they are a fairly active abnormal creature.

Also on the euthanasia debate.when I go fishing if I catch something that's coming home with me I put my finger in its mouth and give the head a sharp pull back over the spine.its instant breaking the spine please god ill never have to but would the sameethod be humane for a cham

 

[Hakai]

Yes, this is awful, yes this is a terrible thing, yes it is gross. That being said...I've seen worse. And my cats go into my chameleon room all the time. That is not irresponsible. the fact that the chameleon was out of the cage where a cat could get to it was the irresponsible part. this thread is good for several reasons actually:

The debate on freezing for euthanasia has been very thorough and brought to light a lot of excellent points. Freezing is NOT ACCEPTABLE because it is NOT humane regardless of what you may think on your own. Scientific studies have been done to prove that they are not completely anesthetized by the time crystallization of tissues starts to cause pain. Mammal or not, the pain process is still there and it is our duty to not cause any additional pain to our animals, even though it may be harder or more expensive to pursue better methods. Do not sacrifice your animals for your emotional convenience. Take it to a vet if you can't handle it so it is done correctly.

Cat bites are very serious injuries. That leg probably could have been amputated successfully when it first happened and this chameleon gone on to live a relatively normal life. But putting aside the wound, cat bites have a second component. What is often worse than the injury itself is that cat saliva has a lot of very nasty bacteria in it and the secondary infection that comes with even a tiny cat bite can be enough to cause death by itself. A cat bite can kill a totally healthy bird in less than 48 hours just from the bacterial infection. If a dog bites a person in the vet field you clean it up and let it heal. If a cat bites a person you go straight to the emergency room or urgent care because you have to be on antibiotics as soon as possible! Just to highlight what a little bacteria can do to bigger organisms. So they are serious injuries in reptiles as well. This little guy didn't stand a chance by the time this picture was taken because I can tell that wound is not fresh.

How anyone can think it's not a big deal to have the bones of a leg showing is beyond me. But I've actually seen wounds like this before that people thought would heal. I've even seen organs exposed from body wounds in reptiles that people don't realize is life threatening.

I think the point has been made this mistake was completely irresponsible and the cham definitely suffered for its owner's stupidity. I'm glad he is in a better place now.

Much thanks for clarification.

 

[Hakai]

I do not believe comments like this are appropriate. We are here to constructively help and discuss. Accidents do happen, even when you are doing everything you can to provide proper care. Please be more considerate and constructive in the future.

Agreed. What happened was a shame but we don't know the whole situation. It's not fair to be so harsh. As much as it sucks, things like this happen and childish put-downs are not the way to handle the situation. There are much more respectable ways to resolve issues such as this and try to prevent them in the future.

 

[DanSB]

This was horrible and I am glad the chameleon didn't suffer long.

There are a lot of emotional responses and anger, which is understandable but completely inappropriate. These graphic pictures will serve now and for years to come to remind people of how fragile the chameleon is, how they need to be well secured in the presence of larger animals. I have heard stories of kids, dogs, cats, other chameleons etc killing pet chameleons. All would be avoidable and in my opinion none were malicious.

It can be difficult for many people to comprehend the consequences of not paying attention or being careful. And I would be willing to bet that the owner of this baby would have been much more careful if the thought that this could happen even entered their head. Nobody who read this will ever forget, and will be more likely to pass along the advice we had thought might be "common sense".

I will be first in line to be harsh if something like this happens to the same person more than once; but until then all that can be done is to reinforce proper practice and safety.

I have cats and had an incident with my frogs where the chameleon's misting bottle fell on the top of a secured and locked zilla terrarium breaking the metal screen open. A kitten thought it would be fun to jump in there an play. Luckily the frogs had enough sense to make themselves very scarce (it took me 2 days find one of them!) and all were unharmed and fine. I was not inattentive or irresponsible but I learned a valuable lesson and got off easy. I now know not to store a heavy bottle of water over any cage. Sure it seems like common sense but it just isn't something one generally considers.

I am a big fan of making all pain to serve as a lesson to reduce pain and make things better so I hope that is what we can all take from this.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I agree completely that it is unfair to be so aggressive toward this person. Accidents can happen to anyone; that's why they are called accidents. I have had two chameleons bitten by my cat. They were in their outdoor cage that has bigger mesh and their tails were sticking out the bottom so my cat was playing with it like a toy and bit it when it moved, as cats will do. The first time I swore I wouldn't let it happen again, but the second time I didn't know my husband let the cat out while the other cham was in the outdoor cage. Lesson learned and antibiotics both times so they were fine. After that I put a finer mesh on the bottom to completely prevent it. Would anyone like to bash me like they did to this person? Mistakes happen. Other people can learn from them. The stupid part was not doing anything about it after it happened until it was too late. That's a different story. It is easy to judge people without knowing the whole story or having been in their shoes. Let's not be that kind of community.

And, please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't chams have partially hollow bones connected to the respiratory system air sacs similar to birds? If a bone is crushed and exposed to air, animal bites, dirt, etc. there is a greater risk of generalized respiratory infection. This can often be impossible to stop.

As far as I know reptiles do not share the characteristic of pneumatic bones (air filled bones that connect with the respiratory system) with birds. With the enormous amount of variation in the reptile family there could be a few exceptions, but overall I would not be worried about that aspect. I know you can place an intraosseous (in the bone) catheter in the humerus of turtles/tortoises, which is something you would not be able to do in birds because it would drown them since it does connect to the respiratory system.

 

[stephencartolano]

:'(( that guy is a little trooper, best wishes

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

Edit - DO NOT freeze the chameleon. Freezing is cold and painful, and studies say that reptiles can survive decapitation for minutes (if not hours, said one source), so the most humane way to do an at-home euthanasia is to crush their head with a brick or something similar. Sounds horrible but it's instant. Freezing is never humane for anything, since your blood starts crystallizing long before you pass out and die.[/QUOTE]



Pinning them is also a valid method of euthanizing them.
My vet instructed me to insert a sowing needle into the back of their heads inside the skull and slide it around left to right rapidly to scramble the brains.

It's fairly painless and it kills them with little mess.

 

[squeekz1992]

I apologize if I offended people.
To clarify, my comment was not directed at the OP. It was at his/her friend.
If the friend had truly cared for this baby as the OP did, the little guy may have had a chance.

I really appreciate that the OP tried to save the baby, and did the humane thing in having him euthanized... yes my response was emotional and angered.. and I apologize. But I just don't understand why people go out and impulse buy a living thing and toy with it or just abuse and neglect it... it just seems there are more and more of these types of threads lately...like the mystery chameleon that was made to live in a cup and squeezed and thrown... its just too much lately...

 

[DanSB]

I apologize if I offended people.
To clarify, my comment was not directed at the OP. It was at his/her friend.
If the friend had truly cared for this baby as the OP did, the little guy may have had a chance.

I really appreciate that the OP tried to save the baby, and did the humane thing in having him euthanized... yes my response was emotional and angered.. and I apologize. But I just don't understand why people go out and impulse buy a living thing and toy with it or just abuse and neglect it... it just seems there are more and more of these types of threads lately...like the mystery chameleon that was made to live in a cup and squeezed and thrown... its just too much lately...

An angry response is totally understandable because this IS pretty horrible. My only thing is that it won't really do any good and we really don't know if the owner was honestly being irresponsible. (It seems like it but we just don't know for sure) There are lots of ways this could happen from not understanding the biology of cats or thinking chameleons would get along with cats for some odd reason. I've seen more than a few pictures of cats hanging out with lizards (someone just posted one the other day on here) so while it is common sense to you or I that this wouldn't end well we can't assume everyone knows that...

 

[tkilgour]

Awww poor thing, so terribly crazy. I am happy you tried to save the little thing.

People get a little defensive as you can see and there is not an easy way to euthanize. However, I think it is great you are trying to save the animal. I know many large breeders and vets that freeze reptiles. It certainly isn't the best way. However, once the animal is dead, I will put the carcass in the freezer. Then I send them to a gentleman who displays the skeletons. It is really very neat looking. One good way to euthanize sounds horrible, but it works, and that is to quickly smash their head with something heavy. Another good way is by pinning them.


Edit: If euthanasia is the end result. You should consider this

 

[carol5208]

Awww poor thing, so terribly crazy. I am happy you tried to save the little thing.

People get a little defensive as you can see and there is not an easy way to euthanize. However, I think it is great you are trying to save the animal. I know many large breeders and vets that freeze reptiles. It certainly isn't the best way. However, once the animal is dead, I will put the carcass in the freezer. Then I send them to a gentleman who displays the skeletons. It is really very neat looking. One good way to euthanize sounds horrible, but it works, and that is to quickly smash their head with something heavy. Another good way is by pinning them.

what do you mean pinning Tom?

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I think he might have meant pithing.

 

[italian chameleon]

Awww poor thing, so terribly crazy. I am happy you tried to save the little thing.

People get a little defensive as you can see and there is not an easy way to euthanize. However, I think it is great you are trying to save the animal. I know many large breeders and vets that freeze reptiles. It certainly isn't the best way. However, once the animal is dead, I will put the carcass in the freezer. Then I send them to a gentleman who displays the skeletons. It is really very neat looking. One good way to euthanize sounds horrible, but it works, and that is to quickly smash their head with something heavy. Another good way is by pinning them.


Edit: If euthanasia is the end result. You should consider this

oh come on! if my cham had just died the last I'd want would be somebody suggesting me to have its skeleton prepared and put on display !to me it would be like a constant reminder of what happened . I think that's really inappropriate especially considering how the poor thing died.

 

[squeekz1992]

An angry response is totally understandable because this IS pretty horrible. My only thing is that it won't really do any good and we really don't know if the owner was honestly being irresponsible. (It seems like it but we just don't know for sure) There are lots of ways this could happen from not understanding the biology of cats or thinking chameleons would get along with cats for some odd reason. I've seen more than a few pictures of cats hanging out with lizards (someone just posted one the other day on here) so while it is common sense to you or I that this wouldn't end well we can't assume everyone knows that...

I see what you mean. I'm not going to pretend to have all of the facts, just this kinda falls into a grey area as far as accidents go. As far as the whole thing being an accident, it very well could have been. Its the lack of care after the fact by the owner not the OP that has my cheeks chapped. But I agree, I don't know for sure, so I probably shouldn't have said anything, but I just feel so bad for the poor baby and for the op

 

[DanSB]

I see what you mean. I'm not going to pretend to have all of the facts, just this kinda falls into a grey area as far as accidents go. As far as the whole thing being an accident, it very well could have been. Its the lack of care after the fact by the owner not the OP that has my cheeks chapped. But I agree, I don't know for sure, so I probably shouldn't have said anything, but I just feel so bad for the poor baby and for the op

I feel bad too but I would also say that without experience it isn't even commonly thought by society that non- mammals even feel pain! Ask a few non-reptile loving friends or family members if they think lizards or snakes suffer when they are hurt. You would be surprise by the responses.

Chameleons especially are not really good at showing pain until they are just about dead.

Maybe they knew, maybe they wanted their cat to attack it maliciously, maybe they wanted it to suffer...? We couldn't change a sociopath like that but if we assume they are normal people with empathy and feeling we can be polite and point out to not do it again and that immediate vet care could have likely saved the life...

I see dead animals on the shoulder of the road often where a car obviously went out of their way to hit it. This makes me sick and I know evil people are out there. But if we teat everyone like that we have done a disservice to ourselves and humanity.

Sorry to wax philosophical here.

 

[DavidBuchan]

I see dead animals on the shoulder of the road often where a car obviously went out of their way to hit it. This makes me sick and I know evil people are out there. But if we teat everyone like that we have done a disservice to ourselves and humanity.

Sorry to wax philosophical here.

I agree. As a poetical friend of mine once sang 'We don't see things as they are.........we see them as we feel we are'.
To assume the worst diminishes us all.

 

[tkilgour]

what do you mean pinning Tom?

I meant pithing sorry.

oh come on! if my cham had just died the last I'd want would be somebody suggesting me to have its skeleton prepared and put on display !to me it would be like a constant reminder of what happened . I think that's really inappropriate especially considering how the poor thing died.

Sorry, you feel offended. I personally feel that is a good way to honor the memory. To each their own. I meant no disrespect.

 

[Kaianuanu]

Those pics are horrible. I really pity the poor thing. I personally would shoot it in the head. This would be more humane than almost any other method. I doubt it will do well even if a vet could save it.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

For those of you only now coming to the thread and skipping to the end - we don't need more "omg that is horrible and how could you let that happen" posts. All aspects have been covered in great depth on previous pages and it is really not contributing anything.