Vit A

[jamest0o0]

So right now I'm using sticky tongues miner-all calcium without d3 at most feedings, d3 twice a month, herptivite 1x a month, reptivite 1x a month. Is there anything I can do better? I hear some of you guys say you use vitamin a gel caps to put a drop on food once a month or so. Would it be beneficial to switch the reptivite for that? Or would this only be necessary in special circumstances?

Also on a side note, where do you guys learn a lot of these more in depth health and physiological facts about chameleons? Do you use text books or what? I'd really like to learn more reliable, referenced information

 

[nightanole]

#1 how do you know your feeders have a vit A problem?
#2 how do you know your 2x a month reptile vitamin powder doesnt have enough vit A?

If you ask most long term keepers and vets, the #1 heath problem is over supplementing.

You might be better off just feeding your feeders food with high vit A. You can boost Dubia with some boiled egg yellows for example. Also if you look up my "dubia crack" it has several ingredients that are high in vit A.

Also why are you using 2 reptile vitamins pick one.

 

[jajeanpierre]

#1 how do you know your feeders have a vit A problem?
#2 how do you know your 2x a month reptile vitamin powder doesnt have enough vit A?

If you ask most long term keepers and vets, the #1 heath problem is over supplementing.

You might be better off just feeding your feeders food with high vit A. You can boost Dubia with some boiled egg whites for example. Also if you look up my "dubia crack" it has several ingredients that are high in vit A.

Also why are you using 2 reptile vitamins pick one.

Egg white contains zero Vitamin A.

 

[nightanole]

Egg white contains zero Vitamin A.

Corrected. its the yellow that has the 250-300 ui

 

[jajeanpierre]

Also on a side note, where do you guys learn a lot of these more in depth health and physiological facts about chameleons? Do you use text books or what? I'd really like to learn more reliable, referenced information

I bought a very good reptile veterinary text book which I regularly study and refer to. (Reptile Medicine and Surgery, Second Edition, Mader) It might take me a long time to get through a chapter because I am not a medical person or a vet so I will have to research the meanings of the words and conditions that are used. I can spend hours just researching what one paragraph means. I regularly reread some of the more pertinent chapters.

I also try to research issues on the internet but try to rely only on scientific papers or papers written by people with credentials. I have developed contacts within the community of people I trust and respect. I use various veterinarians and spend a great deal of money on vet work, including full necropsies which are NOT cheap. Some of the vets I consult with are head vets of zoos and conservation centers, research vets, exotic pathologists, and my own vet who is board certified in zoo medicine. I tend to dismiss information given by people who have little or no first-hand experience in the issue at hand and who are repeating what they heard from equally inexperienced people.

 

[jamest0o0]

@nightanole I don't think they have a deficiency, I assumed we did it as a precautionary. What's wrong with using 2 supplements? I barely use reptivite at all, Just a very light dusting. Same goes with herptivite so I figured I'd use each once a month since they are a different. Not disagreeing with you, you have more experience than me, id just like to understand the reasoning.

@jajeanpierre I was actually looking at that book, id like to have a reference for health related issues.

I'm looking for some scientific research, rather than just reading what people say(it gets old i agree) It seems hard to find long term chameleon research though. A lot of what I've learned in my 15 years of reptile keeping has been off trial and error, and learning off others mistakes/successes.

 

[jamest0o0]

Oh and for the egg yolks, why do you say that rather than carrots or sweet potatoes? Is it because of the fat content?

 

[nightanole]

Oh and for the egg yolks, why do you say that rather than carrots or sweet potatoes? Is it because of the fat content?

You can add the yolks, in addition to your normal gut load. A big carrot has about 10,000 iu of vit a, while an egg yolk has about 300 iu. My supers love the carrot, and my dubia wont eat them much, but they love the egg yolk. So its just a way to add even more to their diet.

 

[jamest0o0]

Okay I gotcha, I'm always worried about adding animal products to gutload. Didn't even realize people used yolks lol

 

[kinyonga]

Eggs...note yolks also contain D3, phosphorous and calcium...
https://www.ahealthiermichigan.org/...-egg-whites-versus-egg-yolks-what-do-you-use/

Just some information about vitamin A first...
There are two different types of vitamin A...prOformed and prEformed.

PrEformed (retinyl, retinol, etc) is the source of vitamin A found in egg yolks, meats, animal products but carrots and other veggies and greens have a beta carotene prOformed source of vitamin A.

PrEformed sources are ready to go so to speak..they don't have to be converted by the body and they are fat soluble. They are stored in the chameleon and that means they can build up and lead to health issues.

PrOformed sources have to be converted by the body so they can be used and are only converted as needed so they don't build up.

It is not known for sure whether any/all chameleons can convert the prOformed sources or not and it's not certain how much they get from the insects so it leaves us trying to figure out how to balance it all....how much is safe without overdoing it. I don't think there is any one right answer for anything when it comes to supplementing...there is more than one thing that works...the trick is not to overdose or provide too little or throw the nutrients out of balance in the process. If your cha eleons are healthy and live long lives then we must be so severe within the right range I suppose.

Regarding where I get my information from, its almost exactly what jajeanpierre says she does. I read everything I can from good reliable sources and talked to/worked with the vets including zoo vets and veterinary college vets and pathologists and parasitologists and I get autopsies done in all the chameleons, etc.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thank you @kinyonga I was googling it and most sites just listed which foods had vitamin A rather than mentioning which kind of vit A so that clears up some confusion for me. Really appreciate the time everyone. I might look into purchasing a book. I don't have much of a reptile network around me yet here in Pittsburgh.

 

[kinyonga]

Your welcome.