Very Sad Day

00classic

New Member
Our male Veiled Scales took a turn for the worse. It happened so fast. Started with decreased appetite then moved to lack of drinking. Began trying to force feed Oxbow and small amounts of water. Tried showering and could not get a drinking response. Last night we fed and hydrated and saw some improvement in alertness. This morning my wife got him out to feed again and he held out long enough to see her one more time.

I keep racking my brain to find out what I did wrong but I just can't. We impulse bought him at Petsmart and nursed him through illness early on and continued to grow and seemed very healthy, He was a very friendly Veiled. He almost begged for our attention and loved to be handled.

Sorry to post this but I have to share my sadness. Going to leave the house for a bit and clear my mind.
 
So sorry for your loss! If you’re up for it, you could fill out the ask for help form so we can help figure out what went wrong
 
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled Male 14 months old
  • Handling - 1-2 times a week. He actually would climb out on our hands if we were cleaning or adjusting things in the cage.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Horn worms, Super worms, raspberries and strawberries occasionally. Gut loaded with Flukers high calcium diet and something called total bites. Used the Flukers Quencher to water. Also occasional fruits and veggies for gut load. Use to free range feed but when I noticed it slowing I started using on of the Full Throttle feeding cups.
  • Supplements - All Rep-Cal supplements. Calcium daily and D3 once a week. Vitamin supplement twice a month
  • Watering - Misting system. 2 minutes 4 times a day
  • Fecal Description - Firm stools with normal white urate. Noticed when this started urate was watery and slowly stopped seeing either in his cage
  • History - Within the first two moths we owned him he was treated for a RI and parasites. After that no signs of health issues until about 5 days ago.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Exo-terra terrarium 24x18x36. Have 24x24x48 Dragon Strand clear side on order.
  • Lighting -12 hours starting at 8 am, Exo-terra Sunray 35w and Exo-terra Mini top with two plant CFL
  • Temperature - Basking 85-88. Temp from floor up was 70-77. Low temp overnight 64-66 . Measure with two digital temp probes an IR temp gun
  • Humidity - It would average over 70%
  • Plants - Umbrella Tree and Pothos, Did have the Zoomed cork background
  • Placement - In corner of den across from two windows. Very little traffic in room. Top of cage is about 5.5 feet off floor
  • Location - North Eastern Ohio
 
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled Male 14 months old
  • Handling - 1-2 times a week. He actually would climb out on our hands if we were cleaning or adjusting things in the cage.
  • Feeding - Crickets, Horn worms, Super worms, raspberries and strawberries occasionally. Gut loaded with Flukers high calcium diet and something called total bites. Used the Flukers Quencher to water. Also occasional fruits and veggies for gut load. Use to free range feed but when I noticed it slowing I started using on of the Full Throttle feeding cups.
  • Supplements - All Rep-Cal supplements. Calcium daily and D3 once a week. Vitamin supplement twice a month
  • Watering - Misting system. 2 minutes 4 times a day
  • Fecal Description - Firm stools with normal white urate. Noticed when this started urate was watery and slowly stopped seeing either in his cage
  • History - Within the first two moths we owned him he was treated for a RI and parasites. After that no signs of health issues until about 5 days ago.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Exo-terra terrarium 24x18x36. Have 24x24x48 Dragon Strand clear side on order.
  • Lighting -12 hours starting at 8 am, Exo-terra Sunray 35w and Exo-terra Mini top with two plant CFL
  • Temperature - Basking 85-88. Temp from floor up was 70-77. Low temp overnight 64-66 . Measure with two digital temp probes an IR temp gun
  • Humidity - It would average over 70%
  • Plants - Umbrella Tree and Pothos, Did have the Zoomed cork background
  • Placement - In corner of den across from two windows. Very little traffic in room. Top of cage is about 5.5 feet off floor
  • Location - North Eastern Ohio
Fluker's and Total Bites aren't the best gutload. Calcium with D3 should have been every two weeks. Linear uvbs are best. Basking spot is too low of a temp. Veiled chameleon humidity shouldn't go over 70%. Did you ever take him back to vet within the last week? Chams can turn for the worse very quickly and should be taken to the vet ASAP at any show of a sickness
 
So do you think the things you pointed out killed him? I know people prefer linear bulbs but I like the MH. This all happened in a few short days. Wednesday it was noticeably worse. The one exotic vet in Toledo wouldn't return calls over the holiday and earliest appointment was for tomorrow. Actually Friday to Saturday night was the worst.
 
So do you think the things you pointed out killed him? I know people prefer linear bulbs but I like the MH. This all happened in a few short days. Wednesday it was noticeably worse. The one exotic vet in Toledo wouldn't return calls over the holiday and earliest appointment was for tomorrow. Actually Friday to Saturday night was the worst.
Not sure, maybe someone else could chime in
 
It’s probable that he had too much D3 in him, mercury vapor bulbs aren’t great because by the time the basking spot is hot enough, there’s too much uvb output, along with calcium with D3 every week instead of every other.
 
Or it could be an RI. If you’re really set on figuring this out, a necropsy from an exotics vet with cham experience would be the way to go
 
So do you think the things you pointed out killed him?
Sorry for your loss.

I think three things contributed to his death, not all were your fault-

1- You started out at a huge disadvantage by buying him from PetCo. But you already know this from the problems you had with him early on. They are known for selling chams that are already dead but don’t know it yet, not your fault.

2- Impulse buys never turn out well for chams as their husbandry can be expensive and complex. PetCo is probably partly responsible for this factor as well as I’d bet they probably sold you their “chameleon kit” as well. Those kits have killed thousands of chams alone.

3- while none of the conditions you provided him were horrendous, they were not acceptable. I think all these small errors snowballed and pushed an already stressed Cham over the edge.

Again, truly sorry for your loss.
 
I don’t have any pics of the 24x18x36. Just the 18x18x36 we started out in. Had wanted a Cham for years and knew what I was getting into other than the box store breeding. After getting him money wasn’t an issue so to speak. I spent time daily on this site researching and reading. My wife is who fed everyday so she was giving the supplements. Talked with last night and I was wrong on the frequency of the D3. It was only twice a month.

I will return to the hobby since I already have a new cage in route to me but my wife says she can’t jump right back in. He is currently resting under a tree in the backyard. My 9 son thought it would be fitting that he would feed the tree and be able to play there in the after life.

Thank you all for the input and thoughts. I’ll still surf the site but it’s gonna be a few months before we get another.
 
I’ve used the exo terra Sunray fixture for years. Initially, it provided too much UVI, but after a 3 month or so burn in (before chameleon was added), it was acceptable when elevated above the screening. The problem is this was the only source of UVB for you. I’ve also used a quad t5 fixture since the beginning as well. The Sunray suffers from the same problem as compact fluorescents, too narrow a cone of UVB exposure. I do like my Sunray, it lasts forever, and now provides perfect UVI (as per my Solarmeter 6.5), but I realized before my chameleon purchase that this wasn’t enough. That, coupled with possible D3 overdosing could have contributed to your chameleons demise. Honestly, you’ve done better than most new keepers, and the crappy Perco genetics are most likely to blame. It sucks, but you are really learning a lot here. When you get that dragonstrand cage, take your time, outfit it well, allow at least 3 months for grow-in and trouble shooting, then try again, from a reputable breeder of coarse. It’s a tough lesson, but you will do great with any new reptile now.
 
This is extremely sad, even tearing up over this. I am so so so sorry for your loss of your cham, I have never experienced a cham lost but just losing my Kraken is something so unbearable. I am so sorry, sending love. <3
 
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