Veiled with Pneumonia

Doolingdogs

Doolingdogs

Member
I just got my juvenile veiled boy 4 days ago. He started showing signs he wasn’t feeling well the second day I had him. Yesterday I took him to the emergency vet where he was diagnosed with pneumonia. Given his previous conditions he was kept in this doesn’t surprise me (small glass box, little ventilation, 92°, 75% humidity, active mold).

He’s currently being treated with:
5ml Gentamicin nebulized
.01ml Ceftazidime injected
.01ml Meloxicam orally
.7ml Carnivore Care supplement orally

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon Male Veiled, we were told he’s approximately 8 months old. We got him 4 days ago.
  • Handling Only when necessary, he seemed to stressed to start hand taming him at first, now only handling to give medications.
  • Feeding - He’s been offered crickets, BSFL, and hornworms. Unlimited access but he hasn’t been eating. I try every morning. Crickets are gut loaded with collard greens, carrots, bee pollen.
  • Supplements - Repti Calcium without D3 daily, Reptivite was bought for the 1st and 15th of every month.
  • Watering - Hand misting twice daily for approximately 1 minute. Fogging at night 12-4am. Ice cubes on top of the screen. I’ve never seen him drink.
  • Fecal Description - good solid poop, white urates, most recent had a tinge of yellow but mostly white. Tested negative yesterday at the vet.
  • History - brand new to me.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 3x2x4 PVC (AP Cages brand)
  • Lighting - 7am-7pm. Heat lamp 75w Arcadia halogen bulb. T5 10.0 Reptisun
  • Temperature - Daytime temps 70-76°, basking spot 83-85°. Nighttime lows 65°. Measure by digital thermometer/hygrometer
  • Humidity - Daytime humidity 40-55%, controlled by 2 computer fans. Nighttime humidity 95%, controlled by fogger 12-4am. Measured by a digital hygrometer
  • Plants - live plants, 3 different calatheas, pothos, Dracaena, monstera, peperomia
  • Placement - a private corner turned away from house traffic. Basking spot is about 6 feet off the ground. Near a floor heater, but not getting blasted, near a window but a solid side facing it.
  • Location - approximately Seattle, WA, USA

Current Problem - my question is, should I change any husbandry parameters while he’s sick? Specifically wondering about nighttime fogging. I asked the vet but they gave me an outdated care sheet with things like “basking temps of 105°”.
 
Picture of his old enclosure (he’s about 9” long nose to tail for reference)
600FCF11-8F3D-472C-8CD3-9C816BAEF9DA.jpeg
 
Sorry your little one has a URI, hopefully he'll respond to the treatment and start eating more.

@Beman @MissSkittles what do you think about the fogging? I recall one of you saying pneumonia bacteria is very opportunistic with fogging especially if the temps aren't low enough when you do it.
 
bbyoda said:
Sorry your little one has a URI, hopefully he'll respond to the treatment and start eating more.

@Beman @MissSkittles what do you think about the fogging? I recall one of you saying pneumonia bacteria is very opportunistic with fogging especially if the temps aren't low enough when you do it.
Click to expand...
I'm hopeful! The vet said we caught it plenty early :)
 
Doolingdogs said:
Today for example is highs of 41, lows of 29, humidity 73% with wind making it feel colder. How come?
Click to expand...
You said the cage is near the window…I would move it away from the window. Even though you might not notice it, there is often a draft by the windows and can play a part in pneumonia and respiratory infections in chameleons.

One more thing I’m going to mention….but you need to check it out with a good exotics vet…chameleons cannot get fevers, so some vets recommend putting the temperatures up a degree or two to act like a fever….but this is up to you to talk to the vet about and then decide.
 
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Fever…
”Although reptiles cannot generate a fever themselves when unwell or fighting off an infection there is evidence to show that reptiles will seek out additional heat. This process termed behavioural fever will see a reptile seek out heat and raise its body temperature above its normal range.”…
https://vethelpdirect.com/vetblog/2021/04/18/can-reptiles-get-a-fever/

“Because these lizards are cold-blooded, they could only warm their bodies by seeking outside heat -- in this case, sunlamps. All except one of 13 iguanas sought the warmth to raise their temperatures, and those 12 survived; the other one died.”…
“After that, Kluger injected 12 other iguanas with live bacteria, and also gave them a fever-fighting drug. Five of them failed to develop a fever, and died as a result. The other seven, which somehow became feverish despite the drug, survived.”…
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_04.html

”The febrile lizard will spend greater lengths of time near a heat source, and as a result its body temperature rises.”…
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7432877/
 
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kinyonga said:
You said the cage is near the window…I would move it away from the window. Even though you might not notice it, there is often a draft by the windows and can play a part in pneumonia and respiratory infections in chameleons.

One more thing I’m going to mention….but you need to check it out with a good exotics vet…chameleons cannot get fevers, so some vets recommend putting the temperatures up a degree or two to act like a fever….but this is up to you to talk to the vet about and then decide.
Click to expand...
I can try but due to the size the only other place that was an option was also by a window. I’ll look around again today to see if I can move something.

I can increase my home’s temperature a little to get that ambient temperature up? Does that work?
 
One more thing, and this I feel is not the typical problem lol I cannot get him to open his mouth for me! He did it just fine for the vet and I know he doesn’t already like me that much, what am I doing wrong?
 
CalamityCrow said:
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

This can be pretty helpful too.

If you have a veiled, their casque makes a neat little "handle" for you to GENTLY hold as well. And you holding it tends to upset them enough to get them to gape.
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And holding their casque is safe?

Yeah I am fully (but gently!) grabbing him, wrapping him in a towel, messing with his face/hands, and he just stares at me like “wtf?” Poor guy is so good :(
 
Doolingdogs said:
And holding their casque is safe?

Yeah I am fully (but gently!) grabbing him, wrapping him in a towel, messing with his face/hands, and he just stares at me like “wtf?” Poor guy is so good :(
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Yeah, obviously don't SQUEEZE it, but it makes a good handle so you can control the head. The casque is mostly bone so it can hold up to a couple fingers putting a little pressure on it.The towel is good too so their little grabby mittens can't interfere.

I've also found that if they're REALLY stubborn, put a finger and a thumb on either side of their jaw, just at the hinge and GENTLY squeeze. Barely any pressure. That can trigger a mouth-open response too, and gives you decent control. I have a panther so I've got no head-handle to grab lol.

Also, I'm sure you know, but their air hole is in the FRONT of their mouths. Make sure any medication goes towards the back of the throat - the link I sent discusses this. :)
 
If you can piss him off to get him to open that is safer... Many people cause bruising to a cham by trying to force the mouth open or cause mouth damage by trying to shove in the tip of the syringe. So either make him mad or inject into a feeder and immediately give the feeder. This works best if they are willing to hand feed or cup feed so you can ensure they take it right after injection.
 
Beman said:
If you can piss him off to get him to open that is safer... Many people cause bruising to a cham by trying to force the mouth open or cause mouth damage by trying to shove in the tip of the syringe. So either make him mad or inject into a feeder and immediately give the feeder. This works best if they are willing to hand feed or cup feed so you can ensure they take it right after injection.
Click to expand...
Sadly he is not eating so he is also being given Carnivore Care daily
 
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