Veiled not eating

[ChameleonMom]

I have just read your thread and while you are getting excellent advice and I have nothing to add in that regard, I did want to wish you and Sparkle well at the vet tomorrow. Please keep us posted and I'll be sure to pray for Sparkles to tonite.

 

[Decadancin]

Only thing I would add is that if you do find a recent stool sample, you should bring it with you. I doubt there would be one after 9 days without eating, but it would be beneficial to have a fecal test done. I really hope Sparkle makes it to the vet and pulls through! I hope for good results from tomorrow and will keep you in my thoughts. Good luck Sparkle!

 

[vistajpdf]

Sparkle passed away in the night. I am devastated, knowing that either the incorrect calcium or the philodendron caused this - all my fault. I can't imagine there was a more diligent "mom" to a chameleon in those early months - I'd watch him for hours to be sure he was eating/drinking. I have a lot of anger towards the pet store that sold me the wrong supplement and the vet. I called them last Wed. Perhaps he could have been saved if not forced to wait nearly a week.

Wiser now, I will look for a new Sparkle to fill the hole in my heart.

Thank you again for all of your advice and well wishes.

Dana

 

[CLP]

Very sorry to hear of your loss. It is obvious how much you loved and cared about Sparkle. Unfortunately, many people fall "victim" to misinformation provided by the pet stores. Stay on this forum for all your advice. There is an endless supply of great information here and many supportive and helpful people as you have seen. We have all made mistakes when learning to care for these complex and wonderful creatures, so don't be hard on yourself. You took the advice of a pet store that should know how to care for the animals they sell, but unfortunately, that is often not the case.

Good luck with your future chams. RIP Sparkle.

 

[Decadancin]

So sorry to hear of Sparkle's passing. I was hoping for a good update. We are still here for you with information, so when you have questions, feel free to ask! Do not beat yourself up for making mistakes. You tried to do what was right according to the information given. You can't be blamed for doing what you thought to be the right thing. Best of luck with your new Sparkle if she is out there. Try to find a backup vet that you could use in emergencies. Mine is almost two hours away, but well worth the drive! Again, sorry for your loss.

 

[vistajpdf]

News

Hi again,

Thank you all for your condolences. I took my kinkajou to the vet anyway, and had a long discussion about Sparkle. He feels that the D3 probably wasn't the problem but adenovirus. Unfortunately, he said that by the time symptoms appear, the animals are stressed further by tests and handling and it is usually not a favorable outcome.

I arrived "in a solemn and angry mood" as I explained my frustration. I did not handle Sparkle, but handfed him daily. The MINUTE he turned his head away, I knew something was wrong. However, we had done the move, cage and all, and I quickly returned it to the house when I saw the decreased appetite. I was a little hard on the vet as I think that a week could have saved Sparkle. I was pleased to learn that the vet, who used to work a day in the office is now there full time, but was on vacation. So, I did get a back up vet, but was happy to know that this vet is working 60 hours/week.

Not sure what to think about the D3 issue, but I'm leaving it out of the diet for my other reptiles. He did say that an hour outside in the sun is often far better than what the UVB bulbs can give. I'm sure we all know that. I will try to take those in screened cages outside a little each week.

Thanks again and I will be here, hopefully on forums other than health.

Sincerely,
Dana

 

[fluxlizard]

Did the vet necropsy or just talk about it with you.

I agree with the vet that it probably wasn't the d3. I have used that product for 20 years without problem, and I didn't slack off on the d3 until joining the forums a few years ago. Although for the past 15 years I used no d3 during the summer when the chams were outside anyway.

My father was a vet who taught vets and did research at a university and we did casual necropsies (by which I mean we opened them up and had a look around, but did not send stuff off to a lab) of animals in my collection during the 90s. Never found evidence of problems from too much d3.

Less d3 is better and safer and I do agree with that philosophy- but when a sudden change happens to your animal, especially after an environmental change, it is IMO jumping the gun to conclude immediately that d3 had anything at all to do with the problem. Far more likely stress or something toxic if all appeared well previously.

As far as the tongue- not uncommon at all when a chameleon crashes as it is dieing.

Adenovirus- I dunno, my hunch is you wanted answers and he gave you his best guess to pacify you, even if it wasn't a very good guess. Unless he did a necropsy.

At any rate- sorry to hear about your chameleon and your heartache.

 

[vistajpdf]

To be honest, I was beside myself with grief and guilt, so my best guess is also that he was trying to prevent me from further blaming myself. I was at the vet with another exotic (kinkajou) in case I didn't mention it. I had just buried Sparkle, so no, no necropsy. He said that chameleons are fragile and that he doesn't keep them because of this. He quoted his last conference on the subjects of chams and said that D3 toxicity was very rare in actuality, but that adenovirus was prevalent, though not always showing symptoms or causing issues. My guess is the stress of the move (guilt) and then back again could have triggered it. The philodendron he thought was a possibility, but added that a lot of times they take a bite, realize it's bad, leave it alone, etc. I rarely saw him near it other than the first day, many months ago. Regardless, I am now far more educated on the subject and my other 2 (Senegal and Jackson's) appear to be fine, thankfully. Regardless, I will keep the D3 away from all of my reptiles and make an effort to give them some outdoor time. Problem is, it's very hot here (Ft. Laud) most of the time, so I guess partial shade, even in a screened cage is best?

I have captive bred fire bellied newts and my Caudata.org forum made me far more knowledgeable than any pet shop owner/employee, and I'd even guess, more than a few "exotic vets." The hobbyists really become specialists on their animals and I do trust them more than many "experts."

Thanks again for your support,
Dana

 

[DavidBuchan]

....... make an effort to give them some outdoor time. Problem is, it's very hot here (Ft. Laud) most of the time, so I guess partial shade, even in a screened cage is best?

Yes, always give them the option and they will (almost always) do what's best by instinct.
So sorry for your loss. I also have no real idea what was wrong, but it seems like you have a good vet so that's useful to know. The Calcium and d3 thing is still a mystery to loads of people working in the pet industry, but it certainly seems that the forum consensus here is working well. Without being certain I also doubt that is was just too much d3. It will have been from a combination of things, possibly mostly or at least partly genetic.........
You can't blame yourself too much, life happens like that sometimes. My first chameleon was sold to me as a male Veiled. I didn't really know how fast he'd grow (before the days of the online forum ). 'She' laid eggs the day we moved house . Fortunately got through that one, but died a couple of years later after her second batch of eggs.
There are lots of refinements I've made thanks to this forum. My insects always ate better than I did, but now they get bee pollen and spirulina powder
Looking forward to seeing some pretty pictures in other threads - there is an 'other pets' section. Kinkajou. Kinkajou. Kinkajooooooou!

 

[vistajpdf]

Thank you, David. One day, I suppose I'll actually learn how to upload pics, lol! Yogi (kink) is a riot. He was surrendered to us in the summer. Most of my animals are rescues or rehomed animals. My boys began a wildlife club several years ago (Wild Over Wildlife or WOW!) and word gets out that we will take in abused, abandoned, or surrendered animals. Yogi's owner had to relocate after a divorce, but Yogi was by no means abused - he's a pampered honey bear and, according to the vet, thriving, thankfully. We also have taken a number of birds (from a cockatoo who was abused to a little lost parrotlet that was tagged but never claimed when found in a park.) Hedgehog (abused), guinea pigs, rabbits, turtles, tortoises, Tokay geckos and a Giant Madagascar Day Gecko (all from FL Fish and Wildlife - found in the Everglades), prairie dog, chinchilla...it goes on and on. I tell the boys I'll be on the "hoarders" show when they leave me for college (8, 10, and 12) one day.

Anyway, I'm happy to have found this forum and I am part of multiple other forums for the various animals we've had to rehome w/o warning. I've gotten my best diet and husbandry advice from such sites. I guess that's why I'm so upset about Sparkle. He wasn't rehomed, but came from the "best" local reptile specialty shop at a reptile show and I listened to them. Painful lesson learned - do your own research. These forums have many owners with this particular animal and they are passionate about their health. Sometimes vets have to go months without seeing some of the unique animals we have.

I'll check out the "other pets" section.
Dana

 

[DavidBuchan]

Painful lesson learned - do your own research. These forums have many owners with this particular animal and they are passionate about their health. Sometimes vets have to go months without seeing some of the unique animals we have.

I'll check out the "other pets" section.
Dana

Funny you should mention, we actually have a vet called Dayna who has a particular interest in chameleons on this forum. None of us would feel as educated on Chameleon health and anatomy if it wasn't for her. She has the forum name ferritinmyshoes if you use the 'search' function you could find some of her posts and blogs.

 

[Lovereps]

Dana, I was very sad to read of Sparkle's death, though it's good that it does not seem to have been the D3 or the plant.
Still lousy that Sparkle passed, though
The one good thing is that you have averted disaster for your other chams.
It makes many of us angry to hear about the bad care advice that is too often dispensed by those whom we expect should know better.
Your kids are fortunate to have a mom who lets them keep an array of pets.

 

[vistajpdf]

Thank you. I am amazed at the compassion on this forum.
Dana