Veiled in bad shape!

[Agustinejl]

We took Oku (Veiled Chameleon) to the vet last week and they said he has mbd. He got shots of vit a and d3 and calcium yesterday he had another appointment and they gave him vit a and d3 shots. I was giving him liquid calcium everyday except for yesterday and today. He seemed to start getting better. Yesterday he was able to shoot his tongue to catch his food which he hasn't done in about two weeks. He is getting a better grip as well.
The problem now is that he has black marks on his head and now he is completely limp. He hasn't eaten today because he wont eat. I try to give him water but he won't drink. In fact, when I try and give him water he does what you see in the video. This morning when I got home I noticed the black marks and he had his mouth gaping open and he was squirming. Just like in the video. Is it possible burn marks on his head? What do you think is wrong with him? Right now he is just laying there limp with his mouth slightly open which hes been like all day. He'll only open his eyes too sometimes when I habdle him. Tomorrow I am definitely taking him to the vet. But in case they can't see him... heeelllppp... please.

Chameleon info:
My Chameleon:
Veiled chameleon, male, 7-8 months, in my care for about 5-6 months.
Handling: not often before mbd but more often about twice a day to gove him water and force feed
Feeding: small crickets, since mbd treatment hes only been able to eat 2-3 crickets a day morning and night. Yesterday he hunted 3 crickets.
Supplements: multi vitamin repashy superfoods calcium plus with every feeding since mbd diagnosis per vet instructions
Calcium with d3 reptocal twice a month the 15th and 30th
Warering: since mbd I use a syringe and apply droplets above his mouth. Twice a day.
Fecal description: he hasn't pooped in 3 days maybe 4. He peed today it was slightly yellowish. A small amount not tested for parasites. Also the last two poops were of undigested crickets.
History: n/a I believe.

Cage info:
Type: glass, 13.88 L x 13.5 W x 20 H. When he gets better we have a 61x61x122 mesh cage for him.
Ligthing: nightlight red reptile bulb 100 watt on during night for warmth. Uvb during the day all day from 7 to 7
Temperature: night 80-85 at bottom of cage. Where he spends all of his time since mbd.
Humidity: 40-70% try to maintain these levels with a monsoon rs400 mister with 6 seconds of misting every 4 hours. A hybrid analog humidity temperature sensor is used abd right now laid on the floor next to him.
Plants: plastic plants
Placement: room, low traffic, pretty quiet, located on the floor.
Location: San Diego, CA

 

[Inky]

he does not look in good shape ! honestly what really stuck out to me is that your floor temp is wayyyy to hot ! your basking spot should barley be that , he might be spending all of his time on the floor because its so hot and hes looking for places to cool down ! and 85 degrees is night time ! my reccomendation is to really lower the tempature in your tank , i do not know if that has to do anything with the other issues but that is a big one that stuck out

 

[Inky]

mostly everything seems to be correct but the temp is to high hence the black marks on his face i think he is getting burned ! lower those temps ! ):

 

[Agustinejl]

We took Oku (Veiled Chameleon) to the vet last week and they said he has mbd. He got shots of vit a and d3 and calcium yesterday he had another appointment and they gave him vit a and d3 shots. I was giving him liquid calcium everyday except for yesterday and today. He seemed to start getting better. Yesterday he was able to shoot his tongue to catch his food which he hasn't done in about two weeks. He is getting a better grip as well.
The problem now is that he has black marks on his head and now he is completely limp. He hasn't eaten today because he wont eat. I try to give him water but he won't drink. In fact, when I try and give him water he does what you see in the video. This morning when I got home I noticed the black marks and he had his mouth gaping open and he was squirming. Just like in the video. Is it possible burn marks on his head? What do you think is wrong with him? Right now he is just laying there limp with his mouth slightly open which hes been like all day. He'll only open his eyes too sometimes when I habdle him. Tomorrow I am definitely taking him to the vet. But in case they can't see him... heeelllppp... please.

Chameleon info:
My Chameleon:
Veiled chameleon, male, 7-8 months, in my care for about 5-6 months.
Handling: not often before mbd but more often about twice a day to gove him water and force feed
Feeding: small crickets, since mbd treatment hes only been able to eat 2-3 crickets a day morning and night. Yesterday he hunted 3 crickets.
Supplements: multi vitamin repashy superfoods calcium plus with every feeding since mbd diagnosis per vet instructions
Calcium with d3 reptocal twice a month the 15th and 30th
Warering: since mbd I use a syringe and apply droplets above his mouth. Twice a day.
Fecal description: he hasn't pooped in 3 days maybe 4. He peed today it was slightly yellowish. A small amount not tested for parasites. Also the last two poops were of undigested crickets.
History: n/a I believe.

Cage info:
Type: glass, 13.88 L x 13.5 W x 20 H. When he gets better we have a 61x61x122 mesh cage for him.
Ligthing: nightlight red reptile bulb 100 watt on during night for warmth. Uvb during the day all day from 7 to 7
Temperature: night 80-85 at bottom of cage. Where he spends all of his time since mbd.
Humidity: 40-70% try to maintain these levels with a monsoon rs400 mister with 6 seconds of misting every 4 hours. A hybrid analog humidity temperature sensor is used abd right now laid on the floor next to him.
Plants: plastic plants
Placement: room, low traffic, pretty quiet, located on the floor.
Location: San Diego, CA

Couldn't post the video here so heres a youtube link:

 

[EarlMT]

Couldn't post the video here so heres a youtube link:

Definitely should lower temps during the day overall. And no light at night chameleons need complete darkness can make it to 55-60 degrees at night. Check out the veiled chameleon caresheet on this website.

 

[Remkon]

It's a wild guess and I'm no vet but I've read more often that people trying to help their chameleon drink actually drown them by offering to much water at once, the water then goes in 'the wrong pipe'.
I think your cham may have trouble breathing and may even have RI. Add this to the bad shape he was already in and and an seemingly unexperienced keeper and I think he has no chance of survival.

By the looks of the video he is also not comfortable.
I hate to say this but I think you should do him a favor and end his suffering. Try to leave him alone and comfortable as much as you can, if you have a vet close by you can have him euthanized, if the vet is not close I'd not put him to the stress of travel.

Keep in mind that I'm no vet but I think they would agree with me.

I'm sorry you're in this mess.

(you may want to put a disclaimer that the video could be experienced as disturbing)

 

[JimmySpinks]

I am sorry to say I have to agree with Remkon. You have messed up with his calcium supplements at the very least. He should have no light at night. Here is a basic caresheet which should let you know where you went wrong - https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
That video you called 'Veiled chameleon doing something' would be more accurately titled 'Veiled chameleon dying'

P.s. Inky, those black markings are not burns.

 

[bobbydigital]

It makes me sad watching that video.

My first guess is that along with the MBD he has a respiratory infection.
That thing he is doing with his tongue reminds me of my Panther named Vera who passed away. She would stick her tongue out as if she was choking on it and was unable to retract it completely then would bite down on it. I would have to pry her mouth open with a credit card and push it back in. She was unable to use the tongue and eventually lost all blood circulation and bit it off. A couple days later, I found something black stuck to one of the leaves in her cage and noticed it was her tongue. The vet couldn't really give me a proper diagnoses and just said that she should be put down to end her suffering. As a last ditch effort after deciding to put her down, we gave her a canned meal worm and she ate it. Showing signs of life still, I took her home. I had to mash up wax worms and crickets along with giving her multiple medications and syringe feed her. A couple weeks later she became very weak and I was lucky enough to be home and catch it and I knew she was on her way out. I ushered her into death and she passed away in my hands. After doing some research I could only find one article that was similar and it said that basically it was something that one in every one thousand chameleons develops. Sorry if I may have gotten off topic but this just reminded me of her and also i forgot to mention that she had a respiratory infection also which i probably was unable to catch until it was too late. It broke my heart she was the sweetest thing.

I would suggest if it is not too late to remove that night light, it is not necessary and disrupts their sleep from what I understand.

Let us know how he is doing and what the Vet says. Wish you the best of luck.

 

[JimmySpinks]

I want to say don't give up on him entirely if he is still trying to get food, so I wouldn't personally euthanise him yet. I do have very little hope for his chances though.

 

[kinyonga]

Imho he is dying. So sorry to tell you that. The tongue action and mouth gaping are indications ofmnot being able to get enough air and they often do the black coloration like that when they are on the way out.

What supplements were you using and how often for each before the vet visit? What were the cage temps before the vet visit?
I don't understand why the vet would have given it two shots of vitamin A and D3.

 

[Nursemaia]

I'm sorry you and your cham are going through this. IMO he is dying

 

[Andee]

I honestly would put that chameleon down. I have done some crazy stuff and chameleons have an amazing ability to pull out some poor conditions. This is not one of those situations. Your vet should not have tried to let you save him, or made it seem like he was savable. I hope they told you how poor his prognosis was. I have been avoiding this thread but there are times when the truth is just... horrible. There is really nothing anyone can do in this situation.

 

[Chameleon Crazy Chick]

Also, 6 seconds every 4 hours isn't very much. It should be 30 seconds, at bare minimum.

 

[Chameleon Crazy Chick]

But yes, that almost made me cry.... He's in such bad shape......

 

[Andee]

I would be worried he is severely dehydrated and that would not have helped with his MBD or kidney failure in general.

 

[carol5208]

How did the poor fellow get in this condition? OMG he looks terrible. Please if he has not passed on already, do him a favor and have him put down. I just don't understand with all the information out there, the facebook groups, forums, etc for just about how to care for any animal under the sun that this is still happening to these poor animals. God I wish people would just do their research BEFORE they purchase an animal. Sorry to vent, but I have been in the community now for 7yrs and it just blows my mind everytime I see this.