Veiled Habitat Quiestion

[JerCat]

Ok so I was asked to make a new thread to discuss why my veiled keeps falling. I am going to post pictures of his enclosure and everything. First off I will start with the basic info.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, Baby, 3 in from tip to tail
Handling -Once a day for a few minutes.
Feeding -Feeding small crickets, i put three in his cage about three times a day. Remove them after 30mins if he doesnt eat them. usually gets down about 6-8 a day. Supplement then with calcium twice a day and vitamins once a day. Feeding the crickets lettuce and carrots, and using flukers high calcium criket diet for gut loading.
Watering -I use a little dipper that drips into a leaf. I mist once a day for about 1 minute. Never seen him drinking.
Fecal Description - it is half solid brown and then half white. never been tested for parasites
History -He came from a local reptile store. They were bred by the owners wife. He did drop on the floor when the guy tried to take him out of the enclosure.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Zoo Med 12x12x18 Glass Terrarium
Lighting -Reptisun 5.0 UVB, and a basking light that I dont use right now because his uvb puts off enough heat for him. when it turn it on it gets to about 91-95ish. Need to get a small watt one i believe. His light is 12 on 12 off
Temperature - Cage floor is 75 and basking spot is 85. lowest over night tem is 75 top and 70 bottom. I measure with a temp gun and the stick on thermometers.
Humidity - Humidity is 80. I mist once a day and he has a little dripper. I measure it with the humidity guage that sticks on the side of the tank
Plants -no live plants
Placement -He is on the end table beside my seat on the coach. His top height is about shoulder length to me. but eye level when sitting.
Location - Wichita, KS


Anyways his problem is that he keeps crawling into the water leaf and then trying to climb the glass.. he usually falls when he does this. Each time he falls he turns a very dark brown, as soon as he makes it back into his vines though he turns back to light green. He has tried to climb the glass other times but he usually only falls when he is by his water. Any insight into this odd behavior would be cool. I am posting a picture of his enclosure set up so you guys can see and can help me make it better for him. also feel free to comment on anything I am doing wrong with his enclosure set up and what not!

 

[camimom]

First, stop handling so much, they arent cuddly creatures and it can cause stress.

Second hes falling because he cant climb glass!!

you need a screen cage for him. adults need a 2x2x4 foot SCREEN cage. I would recommend getting a smaller screen cage for now, until he gets bigger.



Your supplementing schedule should be as follows- calciumwithout d3 for every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month.


You should also be misting alot more than that. I would recommend misting at least 4 times a day.

 

[AngieL]

Hi! I'm not sure why he's falling. Sounds like he might just be testing his boundaries, I've seen my girl try to reach just that bit too far and have a bit of a tumble!

I do have a few suggestions though

On your handling, I understand that you might want to handle to get him used to you but be sure he's not getting stressed about it. He's young so might not let you know if he's unhappy with handling.

With feeding it's good to feed them once a day but let them eat as much as they want in that feeding. When he gets older you will want to start to feed him less so he doesn't get overweight. Also I hope you are using small feeders no bigger than the gap between his eyes.

On supplements, you should be using plain calcium every day and vitamins twice a month. You should also use calcium with vitamin d3 twice a month. It's important to get the calcium and vits righ because tok much/ little can cause a load of issues like metabolic bone disease or kidney failure.

With glass enclosures you have to be sure that their is ample ventilation and have a good drainage system. Stagnant water plus poor ventilation can cause infections so you need to take care.

I think your temps are a bit high for a Cham that age, you could stand to lower that a good ten degrees or so. You can increase it again gradually as he ages.

The dripper is great but you need to up your mistings to at least 4 times a day. This is very important to humidity. Also live plants ate a great idea. There's a safe list here http://www.flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp

I'm going to attach a blog for new keepers by jannb, it's a great blog with lots of tips https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

Hope this helps

 

[JerCat]

Thanks for the advice. When he outgrows this enclosure we are going to get him a screened enclosure, but for now I have read plently of posts saying that glass is ok. And as far as misting more than that is it really necessary when he is in glass? The glass does help hold the moisture alot better than screens.

And he's falling just because he doesnt understand he can't climb the glass?

 

[JerCat]

Thanks Angie. And with his handling.. half of the time he walks into my hand when I offer it to him. And with the temps I will go ahead and try to lower those a little bit for him. The enclosure doesnt have a vent near the bottom and a screen top to allow for ventilation. I do need to work on getting a drainage system, for now i just pick up his felt carpet and replace it with a dry one everyday. And I was told to switch the supplements every feeding but the guy i bought him from. So I will certainly read up them again to get a better understanding of how often so that I dont do it too much.

 

[AngieL]

Thanks for the advice. When he outgrows this enclosure we are going to get him a screened enclosure, but for now I have read plently of posts saying that glass is ok. And as far as misting more than that is it really necessary when he is in glass? The glass does help hold the moisture alot better than screens.

And he's falling just because he doesnt understand he can't climb the glass?

I wouldn't say that's the reason, just a suggestion of what might or could be happening with the falling

Another more serious issue is metabolic bone disease, it attacks the limbs and makes them fall a lot. I'm not trying to freak you out, just commenting on conditions commonly associated with falling chameleons

I'm thinking your gutload could be improved too. Lettuce is rubbish and commercial bought gutloads are often not great to use all the time either. Here's a link to Sandrachameleon's blog, it's a great source and has helped me tremendously! https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/

 

[camimom]

Thanks for the advice. When he outgrows this enclosure we are going to get him a screened enclosure, but for now I have read plently of posts saying that glass is ok. And as far as misting more than that is it really necessary when he is in glass? The glass does help hold the moisture alot better than screens.

And he's falling just because he doesnt understand he can't climb the glass?

the misting isnt for humidity. its for him to drink.

and yes thats more than likley why hes falling.

 

[JerCat]

The more I have been reading it sounds like I have just made a few rookie mistakes. Since I joined this blog I have gotten SO many ideas and so much information!
And I will go read up on signs and syptoms of MBD, since that is one thing i haven't read up alot on yet.

 

[AngieL]

Thanks Angie. And with his handling.. half of the time he walks into my hand when I offer it to him. And with the temps I will go ahead and try to lower those a little bit for him. The enclosure doesnt have a vent near the bottom and a screen top to allow for ventilation. I do need to work on getting a drainage system, for now i just pick up his felt carpet and replace it with a dry one everyday. And I was told to switch the supplements every feeding but the guy i bought him from. So I will certainly read up them again to get a better understanding of how often so that I dont do it too much.

You're very welcome! As long as your cleaning out the water every day it shouldn't be too bad, you can search drainage in here to get good info on doing it in a glass enclosure. Glass enclosures are a bit I'd a debated subject here on the forum. I use screen personally but I'm sure there are a lot of members here that manage to use glass successfully.

 

[camimom]

The more I have been reading it sounds like I have just made a few rookie mistakes. Since I joined this blog I have gotten SO many ideas and so much information!
And I will go read up on signs and syptoms of MBD, since that is one thing i haven't read up alot on yet.

Its ok. alot of us made the same mistakes.

Besides, you learned before it became a problem.

Heres stuff on MBD.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/please-help-poss-impaction-veiled-female-67257/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/mbd-chameleon-first-time-owner-71576/

 

[JerCat]

the misting isnt for humidity. its for him to drink.

and yes thats more than likley why hes falling.

i provide a dripper for him to drink from. It falls onto the leaves. So should I still mist more..(I'm not trying to say it's not important.. just re read my post and i sound a little rude i think) I just don't want to mist too much because I read that was bad also.

 

[camimom]

i provide a dripper for him to drink from. It falls onto the leaves. So should I still mist more..(I'm not trying to say it's not important.. just re read my post and i sound a little rude i think) I just don't want to mist too much because I read that was bad also.

Sometimes they like an all over misting, not to mention it can stimulate drinking for them.

I have a cham who refuses a dripper, bt the minute the mister goes off. its on..

 

[JerCat]

Sometimes they like an all over misting, not to mention it can stimulate drinking for them.

I have a cham who refuses a dripper, bt the minute the mister goes off. its on..

Ok Thanks!

 

[kokom05lb]

Ok this is from my experience and I had to move my little girl to a bigger cage shortly after. The heat lamp needs to be lowered that glass tank will overheat real fast! I had the same set up w/ 2 live plants 60w house bulb and the temperature was well above 100 so I moved her out and sold the terrarium. I'm no expert by any means just stating my experence.

I would just like to say add a umbrella tree in there he'll love it and being a veiled he'll eat the leaves. I'm not sure of age but sounds like he's about 3 months of age, at that age my two were eating 15-20 crickets a day. My male at 7 months old still eats 10-12 a day.

 

[AngieL]

I wouldn't say that's the reason, just a suggestion of what might or could be happening with the falling

Another more serious issue is metabolic bone disease, it attacks the limbs and makes them fall a lot. I'm not trying to freak you out, just commenting on conditions commonly associated with falling chameleons

Sorry I just have to clarify that I'm not second guessing or disagreeing with camimom! I thought you were referring to my "testing the limits" comment and she is probably right!

 

[JerCat]

Sorry I just have to clarify that I'm not second guessing or disagreeing with camimom! I thought you were referring to my "testing the limits" comment and she is probably right!

I understood what you meant. Im sure she did too!

 

[camimom]

i am always right.

Just kidding. its all good.

Though what i did tel you abotu your cham is right..
i have 2 veields.. and 38 veiled eggs...