Veiled Chams and lines.

Agentspades

New Member
After hours on the web I am very confused lol. I have seen so many different pictures of Veiled Chameleons and all of them look very different. What is the difference between getting one from a reptile store and a breeder in terms of bloodlines, and if you get one from a store how can you possibly trace the lines, why do some males have very high casques and some have smaller ones ones, I have seen some gorgeous sunburst variations unlike the ones from the stores, so would that make the ones from the stores just plain or what? How many different bloodlines are there?
I used to breed and show dogs and I guess its easier when you have a pedigree on a piece of paper to look at and refer back to, is there anything similar with these guys or am I just looking too much into it?
 

Jordan

New Member
Color variations in veileds are random. People promise clutches to be this or that it is impossible to know. This is more then likely controlled in the mother mitocondrial DNA. This would have slight differences from cell to cell. Meaning they will all be different. The male would probably play a limited role in this. The mother inability to produce colors like a male kind of leaves you with nothing to go on. The casque of the males vary between 3-5".

What is your curiosity in tracing the bloodlines?
 

Agentspades

New Member
Well for years and years I bred and showed dogs for a hobby, but due to working many hours and not being able to show like I used to I gave it up. I always liked chameleons and since getting my little boy I have become much more interested in it and would like to eventually have a colony of some sorts. I guess its just ingrained in me to always seek the best specimen of whatever you are going to invest your time and effort into. I dont want to go out there and just start aquiring chameleons, I want to get quality so I am just trying to figure out all the differences and if bloodlines play into what I should be looking for.
 

Jordan

New Member
I think more important then the bloodline is the breeder. Of course genetics plays a huge role but a respectable breeder should stop certain matches. Imbreeding can be a problem. Some see no sense in buying more chameleons when they have access to so many. Some will breed less then healthy females and males. The husbandry while they are still in their care can play a huge role in how the chameleon will turn out for you. I reality chameleons and most reptiles have a lot of eggs. They play the numbers game to ensure the survival of their species and with that there are less then desirable members of the species that are produces. Nature would have no problem taking these out of the equation for possible breeding with in the first year or even before they hatch. A veiled clutch in the wild would probably expect 1-40% from the egg to juvenille. In captivity and a knowledgable breeder 90-100% is not uncommon. You would also have to take into account that these animals in captivity can produce 2x-6x what they would in the wild. Those are not good odds for getting a stunning, perfect specimen. On the other hand with proper husbandry and making sure you have the best possible knowledge some if not all of these traits or behaviors may never even be seen. I am not trying to discourage you but I think you can see the problems.

I personally like to see something like this before I will buy it. Observation of the chameleons, evaluating what conditions they have been in, asking questions, with knowledge before hand you can decide pretty quick with the answers whether you want to take a gamble with that particular breeder (or store). I picked my female after seeing her hiss at another chameleon that was to close. When the other did not respond see followed that with a bite. At 3.5 months of age that is one healthy lady in my book and her attitude has not change much over the past two years. She really was the bully of the cage and it was not because of her size. A couple of the males in there where sligthly bigger. She was simply the meanest and it showed.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
You said..."What is the difference between getting one from a reptile store and a breeder in terms of bloodlines, and if you get one from a store how can you possibly trace the lines"...when you get one from a pet store, they aren't going to be concerned about their lines. They might be able or honest enough to sell you two babies from different breeders so that you would have less chance of them being related. If you buy from a reputable breeder, then you should have more chance of getting unrelated lines. Starting off with WC's might give you a better chance....but even then, the babies could be clutchmates. I don't think there is any way of being sure of what color you end up with. If you've ever used a punnit square to figure out the colors/traits that your pups might end up with, you should have an idea of why you can't guarantee the color/casque size/etc. of your chameleon offspring.

You said..."I used to breed and show dogs and I guess its easier when you have a pedigree on a piece of paper to look at and refer back to, is there anything similar with these guys or am I just looking too much into it?"...some/few breeders can tell you which parents their hatchlings came from but I have never heard of anyone handing out papers.

I'm not a breeder, but I started off with two lines of veileds and have continued them for years by keeping offspring from them and bringing in mates that I hoped were unrelated. I have tried to figure out by looking at my hatchlings which ones will end up being the bright colored ones when I have bred a bright male with a dull female or vice versa. I haven't found a way yet.
 
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