Veiled Chameleons! Siblings?

[chinlato]

Hi all, im just about to purchase 1 male and 2 female veiled hatchlings.

My first questions are -

*Are hatchlings best kept in tubs with an open top, with a clamp lamp + heatmat ? And for adults can they be kept in glass aquaria with mesh tops? Or is a full mesh enclosure essential?

* With breeding is it dangerous to breed siblings?

* Can one male breed with multiple females?

* Incubation time i have read can take up to 8months?

* What is the average clutch size?

Thanks for the help!

 

[pssh]

*Are hatchlings best kept in tubs with an open top, with a clamp lamp + heatmat ? And for adults can they be kept in glass aquaria with mesh tops? Or is a full mesh enclosure essential? Babies do not need a heat mat! They need aLinear UVB light (reptisun 5.0) and a very very low wattage heat lamp so that the temperature is 80 degrees. That set up is generally only suitable until 3 months of age. If these are your first chameleons (which is shounds like they are) you should get them at least 3+ months old. You can not keep them in glass tanks. You can keep them in glass or wood enclosures with good ventilation and air flow but It depends on where you live and how cold/hot/humid it gets. Males will eventually need a 24"x24"x48" cage, and females (generally) need an 18"x18"x36" enclosure.

* With breeding is it dangerous to breed siblings? You can breed siblings, but you shouldn't incubate the eggs (in which case it's really pointless to breed them because cycling eggs shortens the females life.)

* Can one male breed with multiple females?Yes.

* Incubation time i have read can take up to 8months?It can take much longer than 8 months, and especially so at lower temperatures. However, slower eggs tend to hatch out healthier babies that live longer.

* What is the average clutch size?Clutch size is determined by food intake and basking temperature. There can be as many as 100+ eggs per clutch (several clutches per female will result from one breeding.)

 

[chinlato]

I have another concern for my first question, is it possible to get glass aquaria and use a mesh/flyscreen lid as the top? Or should i get a full screen enclosure? (keeping in mind this is for adults in long run)

Also, with breeding siblings, im more concerned about deformities? Why cant i incubate the eggs?

Also, when you say the clutch varies because of basking temps and food intake, does that mean before or after she is gravid? or during?

Sorry for all the questions, im learning about their behaviour and reproduction AND also going to keep them..

Thanks in advance!

 

[pssh]

A screen top is not enough ventilation. The deformities and the fact that you shouldn't sell them is why you shouldn't Incubate them. The temp and food matters during and before she is/becomes gravid.

 

[chinlato]

Thanks pssh.

So enclosure for a hatchling can be a tub with clamp lamp + UVB of course?

And an adult needs a full mesh enclosure or at least well ventilated enclosure?

With chameleons, are deformities 100% with breeding siblings?

Also, if i was to have 1 male, and housed 2 or 3 females seperately, i could cycle the male through each female?

I will probably only get a male chameleon, since all the hatchlings are related..i will get unrelated females later on?

 

[jamncristian]

read my blog for care info
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jamncristian/256-chameleon-care.html

you will have alot of trouble finding people
who want to buy a deformed baby
which most likely will not survive

Keep each adult Chameleon seperate in his/her own enclosure

you can cycle a male through females
but then you would have too many babies
and most of them are going to die due to
the fact that you will have other babies around taking
your time and wouldnt be able to be attended to
if you breed them around the same time

It is not going to be easy to sell all your babies
even if they have unrelated parents
due to the fact veileds are VERY common

so think twice before you want to breed

 

[chinlato]

Ok, ill just keep a pair i think, what size clutch do they have on average? And is inbreeding definate deformities? Ive read that its after a couple generations of inbreeding.

I have read alot of mixed info about clutch size, clutch incubation time & feeding techniques..

 

[bridgofaith]

Try these links for good info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/some-thoughts-breeding-2612/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

 

[Texas Panther Man]

You wouldnt have to worry about inbreeding or deformities if you just take the time to purchase your bloodlines from sepereate breeders and ask questions about the dame & sire of each cham purchased. A little extra work initially makes all the difference when its comes to being a good keeper/breeder.

 

[chinlato]

Ok,ive read those links as well bridgofaith, they are very informative.

On average what is clutch size? Also like to know if the first clutch is always infertile?

Also what feeding techniques are used with adults? Im understand with hatchlings they will find food easily as the enclosure will not have a substrate and it wont be large in size either. With adults do they find their food very easily? or do i "cup feed" them?

 

[chinlato]

Anybody ? Thanks!

 

[beeze]

A veileds clutch could be anywhere from 35 or 40 eggs to over 100 depending on how much you feed her and how hot her temps are. Females should not be breed until over a year old.

Every clutch that a female lays shortens her life and the larger the clutch the harder it is on the female. At around five to six months old if you start feeding her less and keeping her cooler you should be able to prevent her from having a clutch at all or at least a very small one. This blog will tell you exactly how to do it. http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

 

[chinlato]

I see, i have read that article a couple times, i understand the method to prevent her having a clutch or even having a tiny one.

Is it 100% that if my female veiled was to go with a male when ready to breed, that her first clutch will definately be infertile? therefore if i mated her with a male id have to get her to have a tiny tiny first clutch? Then second clutch i can feed her to get higher clutch size? Not that i have an intention of doing so, just a question and im actually now sucked into the wonderful world of chameleons..haha

 

[jannb]

I see you are new to chameleons and just joined the forums. I would highly recommend after you have done plenty of research, got all your supplies, have your cage set up and tested out for a few weeks you then get your first chameleon and only one. Wait about a year and if you can keep the first one alive for a year then you can think about getting a second one. Then after you have your second one for a long while then start thinking about possibly breeding.

 

[chinlato]

Yes, that is my intention, to get one first and later on if need be i will get another one, jannb i get what your saying, i understand it very clearly.

Can you provide me with info on the questions on asked?

 

[kinyonga]

First of all, if you have never kept chameleons before, I would say get a male and learn how to keep him well before you start breeding them...and definitely buy females that are not related to the male.

You said..."when you say the clutch varies because of basking temps and food intake, does that mean before or after she is gravid? or during?"...I have no proof from studies done on this, but what I think happens is that if you don't overfeed the female when she starts producing follicles, she will ovulate less of them each time and thus produce smaller clutches (or even no eggs at all). Once she is producing the eggs, then its important to give her the nutrients she needs to produce them and sustain her own systems.

You said..."Is it 100% that if my female veiled was to go with a male when ready to breed, that her first clutch will definately be infertile?"...no, its not definite. It depends on where the female is in her cycle when you breed her....the clutch could be partly fertile and partly infertile, all infertile (and sometimes these clutches are "dumped" sooner than would be the normal length of time after the mating), or all fertile.

Also, there is no way of knowing when she will lay the first clutch. She should get mustardy splotches to indicate that she is sexually mature...followed by blue dots to indicate that she is receptive....and some time after that lay eggs...but it depends on your husbandry and the individual chameleon.

 

[Warrix642]

I think you need to concentrate on raising chameleons for a while instead of jumping straight in and trying to breed. You have a lot to learn.

Dustin