Veiled chameleon color issue

[burakhanbircan]

I bought a veiled chameleon from a pet shop a week ago. I set up a bioactive terrarium, and all the basking temperature, ambient temperature, and humidity levels are at good ranges. However, since the chameleon came home, its color has been very dark. When I bought it at the pet shop, it was green. I’m worried that something might be wrong. I also noticed that its color turns green when it’s asleep, but it becomes dark again whenever it’s awake. I’m still very new to this hobby and I really don’t want anything bad to happen to my chameleon. What would you recommend I do or check?

 

[LizardLurkin]

I've pasted in a form for you to fill out so I can comb through your husbandry and make sure all is well there.
I'll also note that it would be most helpful to get pics of the entire set up, including the lights and how your chameleon looks.

From this photo alone, and I really do hate to be the bearer of bad news as you clearly made a very pretty looking environment here, but a 2x2x4 is the minimum amount of space needed for a chameleon. You will have to purchase a larger enclosure before you know it. They are very active animals, and they grow like weeds! Fake moss (I think?) on those vines is also not recommended as we don't want them to ingest any of it.
In regards to your concern, being darker in color after purchasing them is pretty common. I didn't see much green in my first few weeks of having my guy around.
They're often scared of the new environment, and it shows with those drab colors.

Your little friend might feel a bit more secure sooner with more coverage in the middle near the top, and horizontal branches to climb and perch upon to hide behind said coverage.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

You have got a great tail shot of your chameleon in your picture. You should post a cropped picture in the "Chameleon Tail Pictures" thread.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/tail-tuesday.171362/

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[burakhanbircan]

I've pasted in a form for you to fill out so I can comb through your husbandry and make sure all is well there.
I'll also note that it would be most helpful to get pics of the entire set up, including the lights and how your chameleon looks.

From this photo alone, and I really do hate to be the bearer of bad news as you clearly made a very pretty looking environment here, but a 2x2x4 is the minimum amount of space needed for a chameleon. You will have to purchase a larger enclosure before you know it. They are very active animals, and they grow like weeds! Fake moss (I think?) on those vines is also not recommended as we don't want them to ingest any of it.
In regards to your concern, being darker in color after purchasing them is pretty common. I didn't see much green in my first few weeks of having my guy around.
They're often scared of the new environment, and it shows with those drab colors.

Your little friend might feel a bit more secure sooner with more coverage in the middle near the top, and horizontal branches to climb and perch upon to hide behind said coverage.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, appox 2-3 months age. It’s been under my care for a week.
Handling- I never handle it.
Feeding- I feed my chameleon with crickets. I feed my chameleon at 11 in the morning and 8 in the evening. I give vegetables to the crickets. My chameleon has a very good appetite — it eats all the crickets. I give 10 in the morning and 5 in the evening.
Supplements - Zoo Med Calsium. I give calcium without D3 five days a week, calcium with D3 one day a week, and multivitamins one day a week.
Watering - I use an automatic misting system. It sprays water for about 20 seconds every 6 hours. I sometimes see my chameleon drinking from the leaves.
Fecal Description - I haven’t noticed any droppings in the enclosure, and it has never been tested for parasites.
History - I recently got this chameleon from a pet shop about a week ago. It’s my first chameleon, and I’m still learning about proper care.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - It is a glass terrarium with a fully mesh top and a partial mesh front. 18x18x24 inches.
Lighting - The light brand is Thrive. I keep the UVB and basking lights on for about 12 hours every day.
Temperature - Basking area stays around 85°F, and the ambient temperature ranges from 77 to 80°F. At night, the temperature stays around 77°F.
Humidity -Humidity stays between 50% and 70%. I use a misting system to keep the levels stable and an electronic hygrometer to monitor them.
Plants - All plants are live. The moss I got from the pet shop isn’t alive, but it’s not plastic either — it looks like real moss. I don’t know the plant species. I bought them from a pet shop, and they told me they are safe for chameleons.
Placement - The cage is in the living room. It’s a quiet area with almost no people around, except between 8 and 12 p.m. when my wife and I are there. There’s no ventilation or air conditioning near it. The top of the cage is about 1.5 meters from the floor.
Location - Atlanta Georgia, USA

 

[LizardLurkin]

My responses will be in bold! I talk a lot, just as a warning.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, appox 2-3 months age. It’s been under my care for a week.
Since you have yourself a girl, it will be very important to familiarize yourself with egg laying. Here is a very handy article. You have a bit to prepare though!

Handling- I never handle it.
It is good to understand these aren't social animals, but it is also good for them to make sure she trusts you eventually. Here's an article that goes over building trust you can maybe start doing after she's settled in. This is important for when you have to move them to the vet, or check their weight (pretty helpful later on for knowing when a female chameleon is developing eggs.)

Feeding- I feed my chameleon with crickets. I feed my chameleon at 11 in the morning and 8 in the evening. I give vegetables to the crickets. My chameleon has a very good appetite — it eats all the crickets. I give 10 in the morning and 5 in the evening.
I'm going to attach helpful images on feeder insects and gutloading. Variety is essential. You can source a lot of insects from dubiaroaches.com, joshsfrogs.com, or rainbowmealworms.com, and for silkworms, coastalsilkworms.com
You can also try making gutload ice cubes, to feed to your crickets and roaches (some insects like silkworms and hornworms come with their own diet in the container. They don't need to be gutloaded the same way.) For me, personally, I take my select bugs (roaches) the night before, and shave off some of the gutload from an ice cube, and they feed on that over night. The gutload ice cubes can last up to six months in the freezer. Otherwise, the non selected roaches feed on roach chow and repashy bug burger.
It's also best to feed your chameleon earlier in the day, its whole meal. The daytime temps help aid the digestion, so feeding as she's readying for sleep isn't necessary.

Supplements - Zoo Med Calsium. I give calcium without D3 five days a week, calcium with D3 one day a week, and multivitamins one day a week.
The calcium with d3 should be offered for each meal every day.
However, two days a month, on a bi-weekly basis, you will forgo the calcium without d3 and offer your multivitamin twice a month.
Here is an example schedule.

Watering - I use an automatic misting system. It sprays water for about 20 seconds every 6 hours. I sometimes see my chameleon drinking from the leaves.
You want to mist once in the morning and once in the evening, though I'm unsure about the duration for your enclosure's size...
I have the mister go off for 3 and a half minutes, because it takes about that long to trigger the drinking response. I will tag some CF alumni for their input @MissSkittles @kinyonga @Beman
It's usually not necessary to mist throughout the day, since it's important for there to be a dry out period. Daytime humidity is fine sitting between 40% and 50%. If you want to provide more drinking opportunities throughout the day, you can place a dripper atop her enclosure and make sure it runs onto a big leaf. You can easily DIY a dripper like this, or even cheaper, you can poke a hole near the bottom of a plastic cup.

Fecal Description - I haven’t noticed any droppings in the enclosure, and it has never been tested for parasites.
They are very good at hiding it...Poop hide-and-go-seek is my least favorite game. Since your enclosure is bioactive, though, it might be that the clean up crew sees to it before you do. It is a good idea to get her tested for parasites, however. You can store your sample in the fridge, but once it's over 24 hours old it's no longer good to use.

History - I recently got this chameleon from a pet shop about a week ago. It’s my first chameleon, and I’m still learning about proper care.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - It is a glass terrarium with a fully mesh top and a partial mesh front. 18x18x24 inches.
As I already mentioned, the enclosure size is too small. It's about half as big as the minimum, which is 2x2x4. An upgrade is very necessary.
@MissSkittles posted this image to show just how great the size difference is:

The Reptibreeze XL is often on sale, and can easily be DIY'd into a hybrid enclosure following this method. Because the ventilation is limited in this enclosure, it will be important to keep air from stagnating so she doesn't get a respiratory infection. You can put a cheap PC fan atop her enclosure, sucking the air from inside and blowing it outwards of the enclosure, not in.
You can also run a bioactive with the screen enclosure, @MissSkittles goes over how she did hers in this post, and of course here's the forum guide.

Lighting - The light brand is Thrive. I keep the UVB and basking lights on for about 12 hours every day.
I'm unfamiliar with that brand. Is the UVB a linear UVB bulb? What is its output? This is very important as the coil uvb bulbs are largely inefficient for a chameleon. The Reptisun T5HO 5.0 and Arcadia 6% linear uvb are the trusted brands to put out the right uvb chameleons need. It is generally recommended to replace UVB bulbs every 6 months if you lack a solarmeter, though apparently arcadia's bulbs last a year.

Temperature - Basking area stays around 85°F, and the ambient temperature ranges from 77 to 80°F. At night, the temperature stays around 77°F.
It's too hot for your girl currently. For female veiled chameleons, you want her basking to be no higher than 80 F, with the ambient temp in the general 70s. I'm sure the egg laying guide I linked before explains why, but higher temps as well as overfeeding when they're mature results in very large clutches of eggs. But that's a whole other conversation! Night time should see a drop into the 60s, though it can be hard to reach under 70 depending on where you live.

Humidity -Humidity stays between 50% and 70%. I use a misting system to keep the levels stable and an electronic hygrometer to monitor them.
Humidity during the day for a veiled chameleon should be ideally in the 40s. Nighttime is when the big humidity spike comes in of 80%-100%.

Plants - All plants are live. The moss I got from the pet shop isn’t alive, but it’s not plastic either — it looks like real moss. I don’t know the plant species. I bought them from a pet shop, and they told me they are safe for chameleons.
Since veiled chameleons nibble plants, it's good that all plants are live. I'm not plant savvy enough to confirm if they're veiled safe or not just by looking, though.
I'm still wary about the moss, but again I will poke @MissSkittles @kinyonga @Beman for their opinions. An alternative vine that does well enough in chameleon enclosures is Fluker's bend-a-branch (the small size is too thin to grasp just as an fyi)
And speaking of branches! More is always merrier! You can forage yourself, and sanitizing isn't too involved.
You can scrub them with dawn dish soap and rinse them off thoroughly, and let them dry
or you can bake them for 2 hours at 200 degrees in the oven if they'll fit. For my chameleon, I did the former because the branches were too long to fit and I've not had any issues.
Here's a list of safe branches, if you're interested.

Placement - The cage is in the living room. It’s a quiet area with almost no people around, except between 8 and 12 p.m. when my wife and I are there. There’s no ventilation or air conditioning near it. The top of the cage is about 1.5 meters from the floor.
Height is safety when it comes to chameleons.

Location - Atlanta Georgia, USA

 

[burakhanbircan]

My responses will be in bold! I talk a lot, just as a warning.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, appox 2-3 months age. It’s been under my care for a week.
Since you have yourself a girl, it will be very important to familiarize yourself with egg laying. Here is a very handy article. You have a bit to prepare though!

Handling- I never handle it.
It is good to understand these aren't social animals, but it is also good for them to make sure she trusts you eventually. Here's an article that goes over building trust you can maybe start doing after she's settled in. This is important for when you have to move them to the vet, or check their weight (pretty helpful later on for knowing when a female chameleon is developing eggs.)

Feeding- I feed my chameleon with crickets. I feed my chameleon at 11 in the morning and 8 in the evening. I give vegetables to the crickets. My chameleon has a very good appetite — it eats all the crickets. I give 10 in the morning and 5 in the evening.
I'm going to attach helpful images on feeder insects and gutloading. Variety is essential. You can source a lot of insects from dubiaroaches.com, joshsfrogs.com, or rainbowmealworms.com, and for silkworms, coastalsilkworms.com
You can also try making gutload ice cubes, to feed to your crickets and roaches (some insects like silkworms and hornworms come with their own diet in the container. They don't need to be gutloaded the same way.) For me, personally, I take my select bugs (roaches) the night before, and shave off some of the gutload from an ice cube, and they feed on that over night. The gutload ice cubes can last up to six months in the freezer. Otherwise, the non selected roaches feed on roach chow and repashy bug burger.
It's also best to feed your chameleon earlier in the day, its whole meal. The daytime temps help aid the digestion, so feeding as she's readying for sleep isn't necessary.
View attachment 367295View attachment 367296
Supplements - Zoo Med Calsium. I give calcium without D3 five days a week, calcium with D3 one day a week, and multivitamins one day a week.
The calcium with d3 should be offered for each meal every day.
However, two days a month, on a bi-weekly basis, you will forgo the calcium without d3 and offer your multivitamin twice a month.
Here is an example schedule.

View attachment 367297
Watering - I use an automatic misting system. It sprays water for about 20 seconds every 6 hours. I sometimes see my chameleon drinking from the leaves.
You want to mist once in the morning and once in the evening, though I'm unsure about the duration for your enclosure's size...
I have the mister go off for 3 and a half minutes, because it takes about that long to trigger the drinking response. I will tag some CF alumni for their input @MissSkittles @kinyonga @Beman
It's usually not necessary to mist throughout the day, since it's important for there to be a dry out period. Daytime humidity is fine sitting between 40% and 50%. If you want to provide more drinking opportunities throughout the day, you can place a dripper atop her enclosure and make sure it runs onto a big leaf. You can easily DIY a dripper like this, or even cheaper, you can poke a hole near the bottom of a plastic cup.

Fecal Description - I haven’t noticed any droppings in the enclosure, and it has never been tested for parasites.
They are very good at hiding it...Poop hide-and-go-seek is my least favorite game. Since your enclosure is bioactive, though, it might be that the clean up crew sees to it before you do. It is a good idea to get her tested for parasites, however. You can store your sample in the fridge, but once it's over 24 hours old it's no longer good to use.

History - I recently got this chameleon from a pet shop about a week ago. It’s my first chameleon, and I’m still learning about proper care.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - It is a glass terrarium with a fully mesh top and a partial mesh front. 18x18x24 inches.
As I already mentioned, the enclosure size is too small. It's about half as big as the minimum, which is 2x2x4. An upgrade is very necessary.
@MissSkittles posted this image to show just how great the size difference is:
View attachment 367300
The Reptibreeze XL is often on sale, and can easily be DIY'd into a hybrid enclosure following this method. Because the ventilation is limited in this enclosure, it will be important to keep air from stagnating so she doesn't get a respiratory infection. You can put a cheap PC fan atop her enclosure, sucking the air from inside and blowing it outwards of the enclosure, not in.
You can also run a bioactive with the screen enclosure, @MissSkittles goes over how she did hers in this post, and of course here's the forum guide.

Lighting - The light brand is Thrive. I keep the UVB and basking lights on for about 12 hours every day.
I'm unfamiliar with that brand. Is the UVB a linear UVB bulb? What is its output? This is very important as the coil uvb bulbs are largely inefficient for a chameleon. The Reptisun T5HO 5.0 and Arcadia 6% linear uvb are the trusted brands to put out the right uvb chameleons need. It is generally recommended to replace UVB bulbs every 6 months if you lack a solarmeter, though apparently arcadia's bulbs last a year.

Temperature - Basking area stays around 85°F, and the ambient temperature ranges from 77 to 80°F. At night, the temperature stays around 77°F.
It's too hot for your girl currently. For female veiled chameleons, you want her basking to be no higher than 80 F, with the ambient temp in the general 70s. I'm sure the egg laying guide I linked before explains why, but higher temps as well as overfeeding when they're mature results in very large clutches of eggs. But that's a whole other conversation! Night time should see a drop into the 60s, though it can be hard to reach under 70 depending on where you live.

Humidity -Humidity stays between 50% and 70%. I use a misting system to keep the levels stable and an electronic hygrometer to monitor them.
Humidity during the day for a veiled chameleon should be ideally in the 40s. Nighttime is when the big humidity spike comes in of 80%-100%.

Plants - All plants are live. The moss I got from the pet shop isn’t alive, but it’s not plastic either — it looks like real moss. I don’t know the plant species. I bought them from a pet shop, and they told me they are safe for chameleons.
Since veiled chameleons nibble plants, it's good that all plants are live. I'm not plant savvy enough to confirm if they're veiled safe or not just by looking, though.
I'm still wary about the moss, but again I will poke @MissSkittles @kinyonga @Beman for their opinions. An alternative vine that does well enough in chameleon enclosures is Fluker's bend-a-branch (the small size is too thin to grasp just as an fyi)
And speaking of branches! More is always merrier! You can forage yourself, and sanitizing isn't too involved.
You can scrub them with dawn dish soap and rinse them off thoroughly, and let them dry
or you can bake them for 2 hours at 200 degrees in the oven if they'll fit. For my chameleon, I did the former because the branches were too long to fit and I've not had any issues.
Here's a list of safe branches, if you're interested.
View attachment 367298
View attachment 367299
Placement - The cage is in the living room. It’s a quiet area with almost no people around, except between 8 and 12 p.m. when my wife and I are there. There’s no ventilation or air conditioning near it. The top of the cage is about 1.5 meters from the floor.
Height is safety when it comes to chameleons.

Location - Atlanta Georgia, USA

Thank you very much for the valuable information you provided. I think I’ll need to revise a few things based on what you explained. I hope I can create the most comfortable environment possible for my chameleon.

 

[Beman]

You have already been given great information. I was tagged in for the UVB aspect, pretty sure you have the wrong UVB lighting. Can you please take some pics of your fixtures so I can see exactly what you are running?

 

[burakhanbircan]

You have already been given great information. I was tagged in for the UVB aspect, pretty sure you have the wrong UVB lighting. Can you please take some pics of your fixtures so I can see exactly what you are running?

Hello, I attached my UVB light.

 

[Beman]

Hello, I attached my UVB light.

Yeah they recommended the wrong UVB lighting for a chameleon. The screw in compact bulbs are not what you want. You need a T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% bulb.

You can either buy a reptisun T5HO fixture with the 5.0 bulb or an Arcadia proT5 with the 6% bulb. Get a 24 inch fixture because you will need that for an adults cage.

This sits on the top of the cage and then you want 8-9 inches to the closest branches below it.

This is a large part of her coloring being off. But also you will need to make tweaks to your husbandry within the set up you have now and upgrade that cage size pretty quickly in the next 2 months at the longest. With incorrect UVB she is not getting what she needs... This can lead to MBD which you want to avoid especially with a female that will eventually lay infertile eggs.

Raise up your basking bulb fixture a few inches off the top of the cage this will help reduce the temp in the cage.

 

[burakhanbircan]

Yeah they recommended the wrong UVB lighting for a chameleon. The screw in compact bulbs are not what you want. You need a T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% bulb.

You can either buy a reptisun T5HO fixture with the 5.0 bulb or an Arcadia proT5 with the 6% bulb. Get a 24 inch fixture because you will need that for an adults cage.

This sits on the top of the cage and then you want 8-9 inches to the closest branches below it.

This is a large part of her coloring being off. But also you will need to make tweaks to your husbandry within the set up you have now and upgrade that cage size pretty quickly in the next 2 months at the longest. With incorrect UVB she is not getting what she needs... This can lead to MBD which you want to avoid especially with a female that will eventually lay infertile eggs.

Raise up your basking bulb fixture a few inches off the top of the cage this will help reduce the temp in the cage.

Thank you for your valuable information. I will quickly obtain the UVB fixtures you recommended.

 

[LizardLurkin]

The fixtures, you can purchase one or the other.
I believe the bulbs will work for either fixture, but typically a fixture will come with a bulb, so there's that!
Sorry to repeat myself: the reptisun t5h0 5.0 bulb is said to last 6 months, and it's a good idea to replace it once every six months (unless you have a solarmeter 6.5 to measure levels, but that is a pricey tool!)
The arcadia 6% bulb is said to last a year.

 

[burakhanbircan]

@LizardLurkin @Beman
Hello again,

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/arcadia-reptile-pro-t5-uvb-kit-shadedweller-7-uv-b-8-watts-3975840?cm_mmc=PSH|GGL|OMNI|CC|NA|NA|gftomxTW575vB2w65fDp8V|0|0|0|0&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22779737676&gbraid=0AAAAAD97F16krYwh9mL8K69uzxfP2bgRx&gclid=Cj0KCQiAiKzIBhCOARIsAKpKLANTB32d1rPbNfRgDhODDnsKE9PmgjNrfZv53XyGHcqommUodcioEpQaAi00EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/en...EMVauL8IKD3pm-YUaAl4BEALw_wcB&redirected=true

I can purchase this armatures. You think which one is okay ?

 

[LizardLurkin]

You will want either this one: https://www.pangeareptile.com/products/arcadia-prot5-6-uvb-bulb-with-hood
or this one: https://www.amazon.com/Reptisun-T5-Ho-Terrarium-Hood/dp/B00CX5HXI2

It needs to be 24" to fit over the larger enclosure. It will cost less in the long run, compared to buying a smaller hood for the current enclosure.

Get a 24 inch fixture because you will need that for an adults cage.

This sits on the top of the cage and then you want 8-9 inches to the closest branches below it.

This is a large part of her coloring being off. But also you will need to make tweaks to your husbandry within the set up you have now and upgrade that cage size pretty quickly in the next 2 months at the longest.