Variety for Canadians?

Tyaeda

Member
I'd like to start by saying I am very jealous of the Americans here who have access to dubia roaches. In Canada they are illegal to own or distribute, especially as feeder insects.

I can get crickets, mealworms, superworms, and silk worms, etc. But I'm sick of all the worms. I have a few questions maybe someone here can answer.

I don't want to catch bugs outside. They spray for gypsy moths around here. I also live out in the country where farmers spray their fields with pesticides. I'm also worried about parasites. I would catch some flies, and small grasshoppers and moths if I knew the proper quarantine procedure. How would I go about that?

I know that mealworms, supers, and silkies all pupate into either beetles or moths, is it worth waiting for that to happen, or will it be a waste of time? If it's the same species, only in a different state of maturity, would I really be providing a true 'variety' ?

Like I said before, I'm sick of the worms. I want to give him food that he can hunt down like the crickets. Most worms are a little too big for him right now, so even if I got every kind of feeder worm on the market, I still won't be able to feed them to him.

Is there a kind of feeder roach that's available in Canada?

Also, besides bees, wasps, and ladybugs, are there any other kind of insects I should stay away from?
 

junglefries

Established Member
variety not all that

I have 15 chams (4 veil. 5 jax. 2 nosy be. 4 blue bar.) and none will eat the roaches. i have tried 3 different kinds. they won't eat them from a cup, free range, or from my hand. they may not be all that, apparently. my chams have eaten: mantis. crickets. superworms. hornedworms. silkworms. mealworms. bumble bees. butterworms. fruits and hibiscus (veil). You may not be missing much but a dollar a piece for a feeder that none of them wants.
 

DrtyRdr

New Member
I can't answer your questions specifically, but I just recently tried the Blue Bottle Flies from http://www.mantisplace.com/ and my Jackson's absolutely LOVES them. You can buy them as spikes (maggots) or as pupae, and hatch them out yourself. I went with the pupae and they are super easy to hatch, maintain, and keep confined in the "Cup-O-Flies" sold on the site. Throw them in the freezer for about a minute or so and they'll go dormant temporarily so you can dust them and transfer to the enclosure. They provide great variety to go along with the crickets and super worms I feed. Not sure if you can get them in Canada, but you might check it out.
 

Alexl

Avid Member
I know that mealworms, supers, and silkies all pupate into either beetles or moths, is it worth waiting for that to happen, or will it be a waste of time? If it's the same species, only in a different state of maturity, would I really be providing a true 'variety' ?

The beetles/bugs are much better feeders as their larvae, because they contain less fat and proteins. I wouldn't recommend a diet only consisting of "worms" for chameleons if the keeper wants to avoid fatty liver, kidney diseases and decreased life expectancy.

What about Blaberus craniifer (death's head cockroach), Shelfordella tartara (Turkistan roach), Panchlora nivea (banana roaches), Periplaneta americana (american cockroach) just to name the common ones? Can't you get any of those in Canada? Or other feeders than roaches? Grasshoppers, soldier flies (and the only larvae recommended to feed imho due to their great calcium: phosphor-ratio), bean bugs, house flies, small snails, moths, butterflies, stick insects (the easiest feeder ever to care for)...?

About parasite risk: Which reptile species live in your region? I could imagine the parasite risk of "wild" feeders for chameleons in Canada is similar to Germany: Tending to zero, which means it wouldn't be a problem at all to catch feeders from spring to autumn on pesticide-free meadows and fields.
 

CLP

New Member
I will also add (and keeping in mind that they are illegal in Canada) that you can get dubia roaches in Canada. There are many people here who keep/breed them. Send me a PM if you want more info.
 

Tyaeda

Member
The beetles/bugs are much better feeders as their larvae, because they contain less fat and proteins. I wouldn't recommend a diet only consisting of "worms" for chameleons if the keeper wants to avoid fatty liver, kidney diseases and decreased life expectancy.

What about Blaberus craniifer (death's head cockroach), Shelfordella tartara (Turkistan roach), Panchlora nivea (banana roaches), Periplaneta americana (american cockroach) just to name the common ones? Can't you get any of those in Canada? Or other feeders than roaches? Grasshoppers, soldier flies (and the only larvae recommended to feed imho due to their great calcium: phosphor-ratio), bean bugs, house flies, small snails, moths, butterflies, stick insects (the easiest feeder ever to care for)...?

About parasite risk: Which reptile species live in your region? I could imagine the parasite risk of "wild" feeders for chameleons in Canada is similar to Germany: Tending to zero, which means it wouldn't be a problem at all to catch feeders from spring to autumn on pesticide-free meadows and fields.

All exotic roaches are illegal here (http://www.reptilescanada.com/archive/index.php/t-36908.html)

I like the idea of raising silk moths, and house flies. I'll also allow some meals and supers to pupate into beetles that I'm sure he'll love. Unfortunately moths only live a week or two as moths, so it will be difficult for me to keep a steady supply for my cham to eat.

I am literally surrounded by agriculture, where pesticides are used, so even if the parasite risk is low, I'm still weary about the chemicals.
 

Alexl

Avid Member
Unfortunately moths only live a week or two as moths, so it will be difficult for me to keep a steady supply for my cham to eat.

Keep the pupae in your fridge and always only take out the number you want to hatch soon. Works great with flies, most beetles and the common feeder moths. Stick insects could also be great feeders for you. Easy to get, easy to keep and chameleons love them. Or take a look for some Achatina fulica, they're nice to keep and you can feed your chameleon the small hatched ones from time to time.
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'd like to start by saying I am very jealous of the Americans here who have access to dubia roaches. In Canada they are illegal to own or distribute, especially as feeder insects.

well, actually you CAN get a permit.
and Lots of people without permits still have roaches.

I can get crickets, mealworms, superworms, and silk worms, etc. But I'm sick of all the worms.

Go to an area where there are no pesticides sprayed, and collect grasshoppers and termites. collect and breed snails, terrestrial isopods.
try Mantids, Blue bottle flies, Butterworms, silkMoths?
Yes, some chameleons will eat mealworm beetles. Cant hurt to offer those from time to time.

Most worms are a little too big for him right now, so even if I got every kind of feeder worm on the market, I still won't be able to feed them to him.

shoP around more. You can buy small sized supers, silkworm eggs, tiny butterworms.

are there any other kind of insects I should stay away from?

check the list in this blog entry (in the comments secton)
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/213-use-wild-caught-insects.html
 
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Tyaeda

Member
:D Mr Pink is gonna be one happy chameleon! I'm definitely looking into these roach permits because I don't currently know anyone around here who has roaches. I'll definitely be getting some flies. He tries to go after them if he sees one outside. My husband used to let him eat a couple until I yelled at him about it.

Wild caught is still a no go in my area. I'll have to wait until the next time I go up north, or somewhere less developed. I'll be printing out that blog and that list from the comments for when I go though :)

These stick bugs are in my area. I wonder if they're ok? http://www.petbugs.com/caresheets/D-femorata.html
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry I may have given false hope there -roach permits are nearly impossible for individuals to get - usually only companies get them. Like colleges that use them in biology class, or "bug zoo" entertainment facilities. I was only trying to point out that they are not entirely illegal in Canada, just officially restricted.
Unofficially, they are very popular. where in Canada are you?
Try bug clubs, spider clubs, reptile clubs and frog clubs - you may meet people who will give or sell you tropical roaches.

yes those stick bugs are fine, if you are careful about what you feed the stick bugs before your cham eats them. Chameleons do tend to like stick insects.
Indian walking sticks are very similar looking, though not legal they are easier to get hold of than most others.
 
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