Urgent! Possible Toxic Hornworm!

[ThatOneDisease]

I'm very panicked right now- I was just going to get him some new, smaller hornworms. I'm a new Cham owner, he was gifted to me from a pet store(not petco, etc). The two hornworms I originally had were a bit to big for him and the store I've been buying my worms at said I could return them fof smaller ones.

However- As the guy was pulling out the old ones he said "yeah good thing you brought them, they were toxic." The ones that looked toxic definetly looked like they were? The ones I fed my Cham, Jax, didn't look like that but contamination can happen I'm sure- I called a vet that does take chams so I have a place I can go to do a fecal test and whatever else in case he has poison now I'm him from toxic hornworms- I'm very scared right now-

He hasn't shown signs of sickness I guess?? There's isn't many threads on here talking about hornworm toxicity. Please help-

 

[jamest0o0]

You’re fine. Unless they were feeding the hornworm nightshades(tomato, potatoes, etc) 24/7 there’s nothing to worry about. You can’t tell if a hornworm is toxic by looking at it. It’s just what they’re feeding off of.

 

[ThatOneDisease]

You’re fine. Unless they were feeding the hornworm nightshades(tomato, potatoes, etc) 24/7 there’s nothing to worry about. You can’t tell if a hornworm is toxic by looking at it. It’s just what they’re feeding off of.

I'm not sure- I almost wanna say they did say potato- oh my god-

What are the signs and how fast? I fed him one a day. They all didn't look toxic?? They looked pretty clean and normal. The one that was toxic I could absolutely tell- he's pooped once every day and his poops look okay with no smell and a good urate. He walks around his cage alot, eats most if not all what I put in his feeder and definitely drinks from his dripper(i caught him once drinking yesterday).

 

[ThatOneDisease]

Here's a picture of him today

 

[BleuSaphir]

“Both caterpillars in your images are Manduca sexta, the tobacco hornworm. The caterpillar on the top has been eating tomato leaves for its whole life. As it eats the leaves, it slowly accumulates yellow pigments from them, which mix with the caterpillar's naturally turquoise blood (actually hemolymph in insects) pigments to produce the green you see. The bottom larva has been eating an artificial diet in captivity. The diets usually contain no leaf matter and therefore have little to no pigments, which causes the caterpillar to appear turquoise because the only pigments present are those in the hemolymph of the caterpillar. It's not just tomato leaves though; any green leaf provides these pigments. However, plants in the family Solanaceae are the natural host plant of this species, and cause the caterpillars to grow the largest with the highest survival rate. Older hornworms that are switched from artificial diet to fresh leaves actually can start to become green, but usually never turn as green as larvae that were hatched and raised on leaves. The lack of these dietary pigments is unhealthy for the hornworm itself, and can cause the adult moth to hatch with poorer vision, and usually a smaller size.“
-From a Reddit user.

I hope this helps you to know the difference of wild and commercial raised hornworms.

 

[jamest0o0]

Your Cham is fine, vet would very likely be a waste of money. Even a ‘toxic’ hornworm would be unlikely to cause severe damage from eating your average nightshade, granted I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[jamest0o0]

“Both caterpillars in your images are Manduca sexta, the tobacco hornworm. The caterpillar on the top has been eating tomato leaves for its whole life. As it eats the leaves, it slowly accumulates yellow pigments from them, which mix with the caterpillar's naturally turquoise blood (actually hemolymph in insects) pigments to produce the green you see. The bottom larva has been eating an artificial diet in captivity. The diets usually contain no leaf matter and therefore have little to no pigments, which causes the caterpillar to appear turquoise because the only pigments present are those in the hemolymph of the caterpillar. It's not just tomato leaves though; any green leaf provides these pigments. However, plants in the family Solanaceae are the natural host plant of this species, and cause the caterpillars to grow the largest with the highest survival rate. Older hornworms that are switched from artificial diet to fresh leaves actually can start to become green, but usually never turn as green as larvae that were hatched and raised on leaves. The lack of these dietary pigments is unhealthy for the hornworm itself, and can cause the adult moth to hatch with poorer vision, and usually a smaller size.“
-From a Reddit user.

I hope this helps you to know the difference of wild and commercial raised hornworms.

This is just from eating leaves, which could be from anything IME hornworms aren’t that picky, doesn’t necessarily mean they are toxic.

 

[ThatOneDisease]

Your Cham is fine, vet would very likely be a waste of money. Even a ‘toxic’ hornworm would be unlikely to cause severe damage from eating your average nightshade, granted I wouldn’t recommend it.

No of course! And like I said, I'm pretty aure there would be signs already of him being sick. I am going to take him to the vet soon to get a general fecal test as I'm going to upgrade his cage very soon and wanna make sure he doesn't have any parasites.

I genuinely appreciate your help-

 

[jamest0o0]

No of course! And like I said, I'm pretty aure there would be signs already of him being sick. I am going to take him to the vet soon to get a general fecal test as I'm going to upgrade his cage very soon and wanna make sure he doesn't have any parasites.

I genuinely appreciate your help-

For sure, you seem like a responsible pet owner, just wanted to ease your mind

 

[Beman]

If they were actually toxic the chameleon would be showing major signs of decline. And I wanna add I think you got very incorrect feedback from the petstore. If they were going off the look of the hornworm especially. Listen to @jamest0o0 he knows what he is talking about.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Everything can be a little scary with raising a new kind of animal, but you got access to knowledgeable keepers here if it makes you feel any better, continue to use this resource, be open to feedback and you’ll be okay.