Upside-down?

[Rango_TheManEater]

Walked in on my Veiled Chameleon hanging from the top of his cage (as in the lid itself, not a branch)… with a “hand” up, as if he’s trying to grab something?

I got him down successfully and before he could get hurt, but I have no idea why he did this to begin with. Does anybody know what this means?? I’m a new chameleon owner.

(Side note: My temperature gradient is within the proper range, but he still hangs upside-down from his branches from time to time. I’ve never seen him do this before, though!)

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!

Please post some photos so I can see the arm that’s hanging down, when the chameleon is standing on a branch. It looks like the elbow is very rounded. Maybe MBD?

 

[Rango_TheManEater]

Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!

Please post some photos so I can see the arm that’s hanging down, when the chameleon is standing on a branch. It looks like the elbow is very rounded. Maybe MBD?

Thank you so much for responding! I have been extremely worried about him potentially having MBD, as I got him from a decently sketchy PetCo.

I have a few photos of his arm. Because he doesn’t like the camera in his face, I don’t have very many close angles. Let me know if I have to take a better one!

 

[LizardLurkin]

He does look to have MBD
At petco, their display enclosures often have the incorrect UVB with improper supplementation scheduling to boot so this can be the result.
It's not reversible, but you can make changes to make his life more comfortable, depending on the severity.
Do you use a linear UVB bulb? That is integral for a chameleon's bone health, as well as general health. The recommended UVB bulbs are either the Zoomed Reptisun T5 Hood with 5.0 UV-B Bulb 24" or Arcadia Reptile Pro T5 Kit, Forest 6% UVB, 24W, 24".
And for supplementation:
You should dust with calcium without D3 at every feeding (So, Repashy Supercal noD or reptocal without d3), except, and this is super important, two days of the month, that is, biweekly, you should use a multivitamin.
The best and most trustworthy one is repashy calcium plus LoD. However, a more commonly available one is reptivite. I really vouch for repashy. It adheres nicely to the insects!

He may be screen climbing because the lighting is not sufficient, but he feels attracted to the light to try and get what he needs from it.
You can prop your lights up to reduce burn risk.

Does he eat well in your care? His casque also looks pretty sunken in with that second photo.

 

[Rango_TheManEater]

He does look to have MBD
At petco, their display enclosure has the incorrect UVB and improper supplementation scheduling so this is the result.
It's not reversible, but you can make changes to make his life more comfortable, depending on the severity.
Do you use a linear UVB bulb? That is integral for a chameleon's bone health, as well as general health. The recommended UVB bulbs are either the Zoomed Reptisun T5 Hood with 5.0 UV-B Bulb 24" or Arcadia Reptile Pro T5 Kit, Forest 6% UVB, 24W, 24".
And for supplementation:
You should dust with calcium without D3 at every feeding (So, Repashy Supercal noD or reptocal without d3), except, and this is super important, two days of the month, that is, biweekly, you should use a multivitamin.
The best and most trustworthy one is repashy calcium plus LoD. However, a more commonly available one is reptivite. I really vouch for repashy. It adheres nicely to the insects!

He may be screen climbing because the lighting is not sufficient, but he feels attracted to the light to try and get what he needs from it.
You can prop your lights up to reduce burn risk.

Does he eat well in your care? His casque also looks pretty sunken in with that second photo.

Thank you for the advice! I will definitely be following your recommendations.

Yes, he eats well in my care. Often, I feed him twice a day, although sometimes he doesn’t eat from me and in which case I feed him with crickets (so that he can catch them himself) or I put mealworms in his running feeder.

The crickets I feed him are always dusted with vitamin D3, and the UVB bulb I currently have is a daylight blue stimulant I bought at PetSmart. I had already suspected he was developing MBD, and his UVB bulb recently blew out and i wasn’t able to quickly replace it. I feel irresponsible as a chameleon owner, but his arms were also this deformed when I first got him.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Thank you for the advice! I will definitely be following your recommendations.

Yes, he eats well in my care. Often, I feed him twice a day, although sometimes he doesn’t eat from me and in which case I feed him with crickets (so that he can catch them himself) or I put mealworms in his running feeder.

The crickets I feed him are always dusted with vitamin D3, and the UVB bulb I currently have is a daylight blue stimulant I bought at PetSmart. I had already suspected he was developing MBD, and his UVB bulb recently blew out and i wasn’t able to quickly replace it. I feel irresponsible as a chameleon owner, but his arms were also this deformed when I first got him.

I'm glad to be helpful.
The reptisun UVB hood w/ lightbulb included tends to be more expensive in person, but it is the most important component for you to buy absolutely as soon as you can.
You will want the basking branch 8-9 inches below the UVB. This puts them in the proper UVB index range. I feel that, once he gets the UVB, he will feel less inclined to screen climb like this.

Here's an image I doodled of the arrangement on the top of the enclosure

I also want to advise you to discontinue dusting with vitamin D3 at every feeding. It should be calcium without d3 at every feeding, with calcium with d3 (either reptivite or Repashy calcium plus LoD) twice a month.
Unlike calcium without d3 which is water soluble, the multivitamin contains d3 and vitamin A which are fat soluble, and the possibility of overdosing is present. How long has he been supplemented this way?
@Beman if you're around, maybe you can help on the subject of supplementation? You know so much and I don't want to lead anyone astray!

I've also attached a helpful feeding guide. Variety is the spice of life, afterall! Gutloading your bugs is also very important. You may want to try making gutload ice cubes. You can make rather sizeable batches, and store them in the freezer for up to six months. I tend to cut off a 1/5 or 1/4 of a gutload ice cube and put it in with my bugs the night before I feed them off to my chameleon.

As for lighting, you will want to avoid colored lights from here on as its harmful to their eyes.
"I feel irresponsible as a chameleon owner"
A lot of new owners are dealt misinformation from the pet stores, and don't mean any harm and genuinely love their animals. It's unfortunate that pet stores still push supplies that are detrimental to their care...I think it's good you ended up here. There are a lot of spaces online that are very abusive to new owners without the best research prior, and while sometimes information may come off as blunt, I feel here, of all places, has the best approach of compassion for the animal, and also recognizing the other user as a human...But I'm going on a tangent.
I think it'd be good for you to watch Neptune's video on Veiled Chameleon Care, as well as visit chameleon academy's species profile too. He also has a video too, in case that makes the information more digestible. You will notice a lot of the same information repeated, but repetition is helpful in learning!


Hopefully someone here with more hands-on knowledge of MBD can give you ideas of how to make his condition more comfortable.
Oh! One more thing, I do see jungle vine there, I think, and I might recommend fluker's bend-a-branch as an alternative. It's less rough and doesn't flake off and generally holds up better in the chameleon enclosure environment.

 

[kinyonga]

Definitely has MBD. it needs to be corrected with proper husbandry including proper UVB lighting. The arms will remain crooked but they can still do ok once the MBD is corrected. More in a few minutes on correcting it. It’s a lot of information you need.

 

[kinyonga]

To begin with now…you need to correct the imbalances so that the bones, muscles and other systems in the chameleon get back to proper strength and balance. In the meantime, you have to ensure that you have proper husbandry to keep it from returning.

To correct the imbalances you should see a good chameleon vet. Sounds like you’ve been overdoing the D3 from supplements…and I’d feel better if you had a good vet to help you get the chameleon back on track.

First, The insects we use as feeders are not the same ones the chameleons would get in the wild, so the nutrient amounts aren’t the same either…especially the calcium to phos ratio…so we dust with phos free calcium at all feedings but 2x’s a month. For those 2 feedings we use a vitamin powder with a D3 and preformed source of vitamin A in it and we gutload/feed the insects well so they are healthy for the chameleon to help the chameleon get the right balance of nutrients.
(Right now, the balance may have to be different to bring things back into balance…then changed to this once the MBD is corrected.)

Also, you need the proper UVB light…either from direct sunlight or from proper UVB lights. For UVB lighting, it’s recommended that you use either a Reptisun 5.0 LONG LINEAR TUBE light or an Arcadia 6% LONG LINEAR TUBE LIGHT. The coiled bulbs and other bulbs are not as efficient at providing the right light.

D3 produced from exposure to UVB light should not produce an overdose of D3 (as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the light as it wishes), because the D3 is converted as needed for the chameleons’ use by the chameleon’s system. D3 from supplements is ready to go and thus can lead to overdoses if the chameleon is given it too often. It’s fat soluble so it stores in the chameleon’s body. To try to ensure the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it, and leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 it needs from its exposure to the UVB light or sunlight, we give the D3 only twice a month lightly…so plain calcium at all feedings but two a month…and those two times we use calcium with D3.

Vitamin A and D3 need to be in balance too. D3 (fat soluble) comes from the preformed found in the vitamins, etc and the type that can be produced as needed by the body from the sunlight or UVB lights. D3, from supplements is ready to go…so it can build up in the system and lead to an overdose…and thus, health issues. D3 from the lights and sun should not build up as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the sunlight at will.
Vitamin A (fat soluble) comes in two forms…from carotenes (from veggie sources) which are converted by the body as needed and Preformed vitamin A (from animal sources) is the second source and it can build up in the system and lead to overdoses.
To further complicate things, it’s not proven whether all/some/no chameleons can convert carotenes or not….so we cautiously use the preformed type twice a month as insurance.

I may have missed a few things so I’m hoping others chime in.

Good luck getting your chameleon back on track!