Dave Legacy
New Member
I'm really late on this thread, but wanted to mention that "fairness" really doesn't become an issue until one start paying a fee to compete.
Unfair contest?
- Thread starter m1ndless
- Start date
Marc10edora
Avid Member
You got to remember that the camera is just a tool. You can give a crappy artist the best quality paper and best quality pencil but all you will get is a crappy drawing on a nice piece of paper. On the other hand you can give a really good artist the cheapest materials and they will make something awesome.
summoner12
Avid Member
was watching a bit of racing this weekend.....
You could all look to F1 for an example.. hehe They just took traction control away and you are starting to see the 'real' drivers come through.
You could all look to F1 for an example.. hehe They just took traction control away and you are starting to see the 'real' drivers come through.
Lost Lake Chameleons
New Member
dodolah
Retired Moderator
that image is retouched for sure.
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dodolah
Retired Moderator
Dave, you got a point. I fully agree.
Hopefully, i don't offend anybody.
I guess, what i am trying to say is we should be true to ourself.
Granted that I would NOT call this contest unfair. But, it kind of bug me a bit when we say to people that tools and mediums don't matter.
Ideally, this is what we would like to believe.
But, we cannot deny that a good medium makes it easier to create wonderful art in general (photography included).
Saying that the medium don't mater is stretching the truth a bit.
That's why i got an idea for one of the "themed" competition.
Just for fun, how about we set a limitation to the medium (Just for this one competition) to a point and shoot camera.
Therefore, people are encouraged to use creativity instead of relying too much on their camera.
(Just food for thoughts)
Sorry again, if i offended anybody.
Cheers,
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dodolah
Retired Moderator
yes. true.
But, I would like to add another statement,
that a good artist given the best material will make something masterful than what they did with the crappy material.
Therefore, material does matter to some degree.
Although, composition skills still more important.
So, saying that tools do not matter is not quite true.
Like I said, Ansel Adams used great cameras to produce his wonderful works.
Why? because the tool helped him convey his art.
If it really don't help even a bit, we would see him using polaroids or instant camera. (since it is cheaper than to buy that camera and lenses)
AFH
Avid Member
Here's a little different perspective, but I think if fits because we are really talking about art. I'm a musician (another hobby). I'm pretty good, but there are a hell of a lot of better musicians than me.
If Eddie Van Halen came over and played a $200 guitar through a crappy $50 amp, it would sound awesome because he's really talented and an awesome guitar player.
So it's not just the tools. It's the talent, skill, practice, etc.
Here's another little tidbit that has stuck with me for a very long time and I think it applies here. I read an interview with the bass player for Living Color (okay, I'm dating myself a little). Here's what stuck: He was talking about learning songs off all these albums (yeah, I know, old) and he's boasting to his friend about being able to play all these riffs and they're not so hard etc and his friend says to him "Yeah, but could you think of them?" He said that really threw him for a loop and made him really concentrate on the creative side of playing bass in the context of his band's songs.
My point here is in the vein of some of the previous posts that just because you have a kick ass camera doesn't mean you're going to be able to just snap off a few shots of your chams and win contests every month. Does having good tools help you get your art across? Sure! But good photography goes beyond the tools. It's subject, context, framing, etc. Basically, it's art.
I wish I was better at it, because I'd love to have a gift certificate from one of the sponsors. But it's live and learn. Try and try again. If at first you don't succeed, you're running about average.
If Eddie Van Halen came over and played a $200 guitar through a crappy $50 amp, it would sound awesome because he's really talented and an awesome guitar player.
So it's not just the tools. It's the talent, skill, practice, etc.
Here's another little tidbit that has stuck with me for a very long time and I think it applies here. I read an interview with the bass player for Living Color (okay, I'm dating myself a little). Here's what stuck: He was talking about learning songs off all these albums (yeah, I know, old) and he's boasting to his friend about being able to play all these riffs and they're not so hard etc and his friend says to him "Yeah, but could you think of them?" He said that really threw him for a loop and made him really concentrate on the creative side of playing bass in the context of his band's songs.
My point here is in the vein of some of the previous posts that just because you have a kick ass camera doesn't mean you're going to be able to just snap off a few shots of your chams and win contests every month. Does having good tools help you get your art across? Sure! But good photography goes beyond the tools. It's subject, context, framing, etc. Basically, it's art.
I wish I was better at it, because I'd love to have a gift certificate from one of the sponsors. But it's live and learn. Try and try again. If at first you don't succeed, you're running about average.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
Well said AFH, I agree with your points.
My point is don't say that medium doesn't matter at all.
Because it does although it's not everything! Van Halen probably won't choose to play with crappy amp in one of his concert.
I am a painter for 10 years. I also taught people how to paint in occasions.
Many students (watercolor medium) always thought that they should buy the cheapest medium and the cheapest paper and gradually get the more expensive one later when they are pros.
I always taught people the opposite.
When painting (or taking pictures- photograph), using the right medium has won you half the battle.
I know for sure that I appreciate a good set of paints and brush.
Just like I would appreciate taking pictures with a handy camera.
It's true that composition skill takes precedence over the medium.
Because a crappy painter is a crappy painter regardless how expensive their tool is.
But, does tool make a difference? yes it does. Don't say that it does not.
I guess AFH made his point.
and I also did.
Sorry guys, when art becomes the subject matter, I tend to get my art teaching passion take over.
Cheers,
again good point AFH.
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Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
Unfair? Really, where do you draw the line? Life in itself is unfair - are you going to say it's unfair because one person was able to go to UGANDA, and take a picture of a ridiculously artificial-looking johnstoni that none of us would ever have a chance of seeing if we don't go to Uganda?
I have a $250 canon A640. 10 megapixels. I use it as a point and shoot most of the time, but I can set it to macro and such. Not SLR at all, but I can adjust things. Most cameras have settings. If you don't learn to use them, you'll take crappy pictures.
If you don't bother to learn how to use a SLR camera, you're going to take pictures that are FAR crappier than th eones you take with a point and shoot! It is not easy.
Most of the pics I have in the past were taken with my old 3 megapixel canon - good pictures - I even won the photo contest. The actual camera is only a tiny part of taking a picture - getting th eright setup and lighting is more important.
This pic was taken with a canon 3.3 MP camera that could be bought for unfder $140 now. probably much less. I got the newer 10 mp version ("A" series are great - ultra cheap rechargable NiMh batteries with tremendous battery life!) for about $270 at newegg this summer.
If I spend a few minutes or hours a day taking pictures, and you don't, th econtest isn't fair.
Heck, if someone's only got a digital SLR with artistic photo skills and single veiled with severe mbd, and the other guy has an adult female C. minor in full gravid coloration and nothing but a 3 MP point and shoot camera - it's not a fair contest either.
All in all, these photo contest on this website have been great. They bring people in, and keep them participating. Plus, they encourage the photography of chameleons, and that encourages good husbandry!
Camera ememory is cheap - unlimited, in fact, if you delete stuff. Take tons of pictures. I take excellent pictures. I have impressed even professional photographers with my work. I cant' help but laugh - I dont' know what I'm doing! For every good picture I take, I take dozens of crappy or modest ones. WIth multiple gigabytes of flash memory, I'm bound to take a few good shots! Eventually, I've learned what works and what doesn't. cool lighting, warm lightsing, sunlight, etc. Keep taking pics and eventually one will stand out. I don't even know what most of the settings on my camera do.
This cute little deremensis pic was easy to set up, but I tell you, wihtout a SLR, it's a pain to get the macro to work just right. It can take dozens of shots - but it only takes one good one.
I have a $250 canon A640. 10 megapixels. I use it as a point and shoot most of the time, but I can set it to macro and such. Not SLR at all, but I can adjust things. Most cameras have settings. If you don't learn to use them, you'll take crappy pictures.
If you don't bother to learn how to use a SLR camera, you're going to take pictures that are FAR crappier than th eones you take with a point and shoot! It is not easy.
Most of the pics I have in the past were taken with my old 3 megapixel canon - good pictures - I even won the photo contest. The actual camera is only a tiny part of taking a picture - getting th eright setup and lighting is more important.
This pic was taken with a canon 3.3 MP camera that could be bought for unfder $140 now. probably much less. I got the newer 10 mp version ("A" series are great - ultra cheap rechargable NiMh batteries with tremendous battery life!) for about $270 at newegg this summer.
If I spend a few minutes or hours a day taking pictures, and you don't, th econtest isn't fair.
Heck, if someone's only got a digital SLR with artistic photo skills and single veiled with severe mbd, and the other guy has an adult female C. minor in full gravid coloration and nothing but a 3 MP point and shoot camera - it's not a fair contest either.
All in all, these photo contest on this website have been great. They bring people in, and keep them participating. Plus, they encourage the photography of chameleons, and that encourages good husbandry!
Camera ememory is cheap - unlimited, in fact, if you delete stuff. Take tons of pictures. I take excellent pictures. I have impressed even professional photographers with my work. I cant' help but laugh - I dont' know what I'm doing! For every good picture I take, I take dozens of crappy or modest ones. WIth multiple gigabytes of flash memory, I'm bound to take a few good shots! Eventually, I've learned what works and what doesn't. cool lighting, warm lightsing, sunlight, etc. Keep taking pics and eventually one will stand out. I don't even know what most of the settings on my camera do.
This cute little deremensis pic was easy to set up, but I tell you, wihtout a SLR, it's a pain to get the macro to work just right. It can take dozens of shots - but it only takes one good one.
summoner12
Avid Member
Cage Match!!! Arrrrr!!!
I think someone should post some examples of unfair contests... show the pics side by side. Show us what think should have won.
I think someone should post some examples of unfair contests... show the pics side by side. Show us what think should have won.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
lol.
I think it's only unfair if it's a fee based contest.
Since it's free, i don't have any complain
again, separating the competition into a PS and SLR contest might be a good idea.
or have one of the themed competition be a PS only.
in my opinion, it will be more interesting!
Explained it all in 5 words.
Tatooineboy
New Member
Bah.
If you don't like the contest, then don't enter it.
I think its enjoyable to look thru all the entries, myself.
Some of the best and most memorable pictures aren't taken by professional photographers but my amatures. Goes to show you that you don't have to have the best equipment or formal training.
That goes for any art form, honestly.
If you don't like the contest, then don't enter it.
I think its enjoyable to look thru all the entries, myself.
Some of the best and most memorable pictures aren't taken by professional photographers but my amatures. Goes to show you that you don't have to have the best equipment or formal training.
That goes for any art form, honestly.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
this is an old thread and i don't think it's worth to be prolonged. Since the longer this thread be, the more it does not serve its purpose.It'll open up to flaming and stuff.
I think we are all agree that Composition skill and Design precedes over the tool and mediums. But, tools and mediums also matter to some degree.
mattjillson
New Member
A SLR camera is just a fancy tool, nothing more. It's the person who pushes the button that makes the difference. Adhereing to the rules of photography helps quite a bit too - croping, rule of thirds, framing, ect. A hot model doesn't hurt either. Some of the best pictures I've taken are on a old school (2000, hahaha) 3.2 Sony Cyber Shot. You could probably find one on eBay for less than $100. Remember that mega pixels do not matter for pics you post on-line.
The newer hybrid type of cameras (mix between point and click and SLR) you are seeing now are a great, less expensive way to have most of the features and SLR has without the hefty price tag. An example of this is the Olympus SP-560 UZ. You have all the marco tools you'll need for taking Cham pics and can do moving sports shots, ie feeding pics PLUS I think it has a night photog feature. I've played with it and it's great but you will need a tripod for good macro.
The newer hybrid type of cameras (mix between point and click and SLR) you are seeing now are a great, less expensive way to have most of the features and SLR has without the hefty price tag. An example of this is the Olympus SP-560 UZ. You have all the marco tools you'll need for taking Cham pics and can do moving sports shots, ie feeding pics PLUS I think it has a night photog feature. I've played with it and it's great but you will need a tripod for good macro.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
I am still reading down the thread... But i wanted to put something in on this... Depending on how you want the water to look you adjust the shutter speed... The faster the shutter speed, The more "Still Life" the pic will appear like in your pic... If you slow the shutter speed you will most likely want a tripod to hold the camera still, but you can get a cool effect using this if the water appears to be flowing or in motion (blurred) and anything that was still will come out clear. If you have a point and shoot most likely this is not an option.
You can get good shots with a P&S... but all you can do is point and shoot...an SLR camera adds a huge range of flexability and the capability, to take the same shot, In a ton of different settings and choose which one looks better. You can adjust aperture, shutter speed, lenses, lens filters... all of these can dramtically alter the appearance of a photo without any photoshopping. But you have to know what you're doing. Makes for almost endless ways to shoot the same exact same pic. So as far as an SLR vs P&S in a photo competition where no digital altering is allowed, The SLR has an advantage as far as flexibility capturing the image the photographer is trying for. Not only that every digital SLR that I have ever used includes the automatic setting as an option, Even in this setting ... The image quality from a DSLR set to automatic is going to be nicer than an average point and shoot.
BUT the fact is... this is a "photo" contest, Not a "Coolest Cham" or "Coolest Cam" contest... Therefore the one with best equipment is going to find it easier to take high quality photos... But I like to think that if you are creative enough a P&S photo could defiantly have a chance... You just aren't as flexible. An amazing photo could be taken by either style camera.
I'm trying to think of a good analogy... Think of a sharpshooting contest. where the objective is to hit the target and it doesn't matter what kind of gun you use... The person who comes with a modern scoped rifle has a better chance at hitting the target than the older guy who shows up with 1950's model winchester.
I currently only own a film style SLR, and a Digital P&S...and I think to seperate the contests by what kind of camera you use would be pretty silly. In a photo contest like this... It is up to the photographer what kind of camera you want to use to produce the final product... But to say that it is not a "Fair" contest because some people have really nice cameras is silly... Life is not fair... I'm sure they acquired their awesome cameras fair and square... You have the same freedom they did to find a way to acquire the equipment you wish to use.
I guess the old saying kind of applies... "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."
BTW: I am really enjoying the forum so far... Great Resource!!! Thanks Everyone.
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Amy J
New Member
I am new to this site, but I thoroughly enjoy photography on a terrible camera. It does not really matter so much what camera is used in my opinion as much of this can be fixed in editing. But I am frustrated that we are not permitted to edit our photos at all in the photography contest. If you do not have the proper photography equipment, sometimes editing is the only way an artistic vision can be fully realized.
Here are two examples of the before and afer process of editing a picture. Please note that I do not have photoshop, only an elementary photo editing system that comes with alll standard computers.
Wait can someone please tell me how to post a photo that is not online? This asks for a url.
Here are two examples of the before and afer process of editing a picture. Please note that I do not have photoshop, only an elementary photo editing system that comes with alll standard computers.
Wait can someone please tell me how to post a photo that is not online? This asks for a url.
