Unexpected female laying eggs

JodyD

New Member
Hello. My son purchased a juvenile veiled early in April, which we thought was a male. To our surprise, we noticed a half dozen eggs scattered around the bottom of his cage yesterday. Guess we have a girl ;) She hasn't been with any males, and when we called the pet store yesterday, they verified that they would not have had her with a male while in their care, so the eggs should be infertile. We had noticed she hadn't eaten in a couple of days, so that explains why. Now we're scrambling to learn all we can about females. To give you an idea about her cage set up, we have two larger (about 8") potted umbrella plants, and a smaller ficus, with paper towel lining the rest of the exposed floor. We noticed a few eggs on the floor, and a couple sitting on top of one of the the potted plants. We read about a lay box, so yesterday we squeezed in a 12" pot with substrate (all we could fit in there!). I'm wondering if there are more eggs to come? The other day, I noticed a light sprinkling of dirt all over the paper towel which was unusual. I figured that a stick above must have shifted and a bit of dirt fell from it below (that didn't really make sense, but who knew?!), but now I'm wondering if she had been digging in the plant. Though I never noticed any holes or disrupted dirt at the top of the plants, could she have already buried most of her eggs there? The main stems of the umbrella plant take up most of pots, so I would think it'd be hard for her to get a decent size hole in there. She seems smaller today, and there's no sign of egg bumps near her abdomen. She still isn't eating, but has a number of crickets in her cage, as well as a couple of her favorite super worms in her bowl. I added liquid calcium to her dripper. We have a sheet over her cage to give her privacy if she needs to dig more. This morning shes's just roaming around the top branches. What else can we do? Any advice or input would be very helpful!
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Anyone helping will need some additional info. How many eggs did she lay? What is your supplementation schedule and what supplements do you use. What is her feeding schedule, and what are her temps at basking. Temps and food have a direct correlation in egg production. If she only laid 6 then I would be concerned she is holding more and you have a situation where egg binding is very possible. It would help also if you post pictures. I am going to give you further info and tag someone else in to help you. @Brodybreaux25 @AnamCara @JoXie411

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
 

JoXie411

Chameleon Enthusiast
Can you fill this out please so we can help you better. Once filled we will talk, but I am concerned about her still having eggs


Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 

Daesie11

Chameleon Enthusiast
Did you get her from a store like PetSmart or from a reptile store? Petsmart is notorious for not knowing the sex of their chams, and likely to house males and females together (even if they dont mean to!) I'm fairly certain there are ways of determining whether the eggs are fertile by looking at them. @JoXie411 just got a surprise fertile clutch from a cham she rescued awhile back. Maybe she can shed some light for us.
 

Daesie11

Chameleon Enthusiast
Can you fill this out please so we can help you better. Once filled we will talk, but I am concerned about her still having eggs


Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Lol oh hi Jo
 

Trailgem

Avid Member
I would be careful. If they didn’t know the sex, they can’t really say for sure if she mated with a male.

I have my female from Petco too, she laid 40 eggs the other day, like an idiot i kept them, and non of them have shriveled up or discolored yet. What the heck am I gonna do with 40 veiled Chams.

It sounds cold hearted, but throw them away before they start developing. That’s what I should’ve done.
 

JoXie411

Chameleon Enthusiast
Use a flashlight to check for veins under the shell of the eggs. No veins, not fertile. As soon as the help form is filled out we will be able to help you out further.

Good job getting a lay bin ready and in the cage.
From my understanding you can’t candle cham eggs right way there will be no veins. You will have to tell by color,textur, and if they mold in a week
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Fill out the help form please.

If it was only 6 eggs she didnt likely get them all out. If she dropped some not in a hole she probably reallly wanted them out.

I would immediately take her to a vet. Let them x ray to see what is left.

Can you post a photo of the eggs? Were they well formed?

Your supplement and feeding schedule will be very important going forward--and your basking temp.
 

JodyD

New Member
Anyone helping will need some additional info. How many eggs did she lay? What is your supplementation schedule and what supplements do you use. What is her feeding schedule, and what are her temps at basking. Temps and food have a direct correlation in egg production. If she only laid 6 then I would be concerned she is holding more and you have a situation where egg binding is very possible. It would help also if you post pictures. I am going to give you further info and tag someone else in to help you. @Brodybreaux25 @AnamCara @JoXie411

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345

Basking temps are in the upper 80s. She gets several thorough hand mists each day. Screen enclosure 24x24x48. She gets about 6-10 large calcium dusted crickets in her bowl every day (though most immediately hop out so she hunts for those). One super worm every other day or so. She's never really liked being handled, so we've only handled her a couple of times since we got her in April just to change over her cage to the larger, current one, and another time to add plants. Lights are on from 7 am to 7 pm. In all this time, we've only caught her drinking a few times, so it's hard to know how much/often she drinks. Her cage is in my son's room, near a window. We live in Michigan.
 

JodyD

New Member
I tried uploading several pictures, but it doesn't appear like I did it correctly, so I'll try again :)
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Basking temps are in the upper 80s. She gets several thorough hand mists each day. Screen enclosure 24x24x48. She gets about 6-10 large calcium dusted crickets in her bowl every day (though most immediately hop out so she hunts for those). One super worm every other day or so. She's never really liked being handled, so we've only handled her a couple of times since we got her in April just to change over her cage to the larger, current one, and another time to add plants. Lights are on from 7 am to 7 pm. In all this time, we've only caught her drinking a few times, so it's hard to know how much/often she drinks. Her cage is in my son's room, near a window. We live in Michigan.
Yeah so your going to want to fill out that form by copy pasting and giving detail. Upper 80's can mean alot of different things and females should not be warmer then 84. For people to give you thorough feedback they will need exacts on everything. And if she only laid 6 eggs then she more then likely has more. Egg binding is serious and will kill her. make sure the lower half of the viv is the only thing covered for privacy or it will turn into a hot box for her.
 

JodyD

New Member
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? female veiled, purchased at Petco in April as a juvenile
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Rarely as she doesn't seem to like it
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Fed about 6-8 large calcium dusted crickets /every morning. one super worm every day or two . Gut loading crickets
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? dusting with flukers repta calcium every other day
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Have only caught her drinking a few times since we've had her, so no idea how often/amount she drinks. Dripper drips onto the leaves of her umbrella plant, then into the pot. She gets a really good hand mist several times a day, so water is collected and dripping off of leaves
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Never tested for parasites. Colors look normal, shape looks normal, dark brown, and nice white
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Nothing noteworthy. She has shed three times since we've had her. The last shed was about a month- maybe two months- ago. She usually takes a worm off of a chopstick-type thing, but lately has been hissing at anything that comes close to her, so I drop the worm in her bowl.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Reptibreeze sscreen cage 24x24x48
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Flukers 100 watt basking bulb, Reptisun 5.0 UVB. 7 am - 7pm
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? We've never measured the cage floor. Basking spot is in the upper 80s as meausred by ZooMed thermometer. House temp is usually set at 68
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? We haven't measured humidity.
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Two 8" potted umbrella plants, and a 6" ficus
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cage sits on a 8" high platform. No air vents nearby. Window fan is about 6 feet away. Located in my son's room, so cham doesn't get much traffic.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? Michigan
IMG_20190915_121452.jpgIMG_20190915_121516.jpgIMG_20190915_121520.jpgIMG_20190915_121250.jpgIMG_20190915_121814.jpg
 

JodyD

New Member
Did you get her from a store like PetSmart or from a reptile store? Petsmart is notorious for not knowing the sex of their chams, and likely to house males and females together (even if they dont mean to!) I'm fairly certain there are ways of determining whether the eggs are fertile by looking at them. @JoXie411 just got a surprise fertile clutch from a cham she rescued awhile back. Maybe she can shed some light for us.
The absolute earliest she could have been with a male is late March. Is it possible she could produce fertile eggs mid-September?
 

JodyD

New Member
Yeah so your going to want to fill out that form by copy pasting and giving detail. Upper 80's can mean alot of different things and females should not be warmer then 84. For people to give you thorough feedback they will need exacts on everything. And if she only laid 6 eggs then she more then likely has more. Egg binding is serious and will kill her. make sure the lower half of the viv is the only thing covered for privacy or it will turn into a hot box for her.
I'll move the sheet down. Thanks for that tip.
 

Kristen Wilkins

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hello @JodyD welcome . Are these pictures of today or before she dropped eggs ? I would recommend Repashy low it’s an all in one lightly dusting her feeders before giving her . You also need to cut her way back on feeding 3 days a week to start . She is a heavy looking girl . Also he temps should not be more then 84 . @Beman , Becca will go over your form more In detail . Becca can you take a look at her front legs ?? Or @Brodybreaux25 !!. Also her lights need changing . Becca likely will post lighting info . Best of luck .
 

JodyD

New Member
Hello @JodyD welcome . Are these pictures of today or before she dropped eggs ? I would recommend Repashy low it’s an all in one lightly dusting her feeders before giving her . You also need to cut her way back on feeding 3 days a week to start . She is a heavy looking girl . Also he temps should not be more then 84 . @Beman , Becca will go over your form more In detail . Becca can you take a look at her front legs ?? Or @Brodybreaux25 !!. Also her lights need changing . Becca likely will post lighting info . Best of luck .
Pictures are from today.
 
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