Two vets and no answers

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Panther Chameleon, 8 months old, in my care two months.
  • Handling - Recently just to go to the vet and check her grip
  • Feeding - So far for me she has only eaten crickets, silkworms and hornworms. Gutloaded with a variety of veg and bug burger and superload from Repashy.
  • Supplements - Repashy Calcium plus LoD on *most* everything but hornworms
  • Watering - mister goes on for 5 minutes leading up to her light turning on. for 1 minute at 4pm and for 6 minutes about an hour after her lights turn off. Nighttime humidity gets to 80% -- I do hang a shower curtain on the front of the enclosure to get humidity up. I have not seen her drink.
  • Fecal Description - She has not pooped in over a week -- but the last time she did everything looked normal with a white urate.
  • History - I think you all know her history but she was shipped to me a couple of months ago from another forum member who took EXCELLENT care of her. .

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 4x4x2 screen stuffed with plants.
  • Lighting - Arcadia 6% bulb, less than 3 months old -- lights on 6am-6pm
  • Temperature - I use a thermometer control and her basking spot is 82 degrees.
  • Humidity - Hydrometer measures humidity. 40-50% during the day, up to 80% at night.
  • Plants - Pothos, more Pothos, dracanea, ficus.
  • Placement - Home office, away from window and vent, raised using garage shelving units.
  • Location - Longmont Colorado

Current Problem - This is a bit of a story.

Since I got Coza, she has pretty consistently hung out in the bottom of her enclosure. She would roam around a tad at first, but that was about it. She literally stays on the lowest branch.

About a month ago I noticed she was sleeping during the day -- not sleepy colors but her eyes were closed. I consulted some forum members and raised her UV light off of her enclosure after seeing some information / charts recently put out. I got a solar meter and due to the levels I was getting I put her light back on her enclosure. When I had raised it I also stopped supplement for a week, thinking she was maybe getting too much D and too much UV. We had a vet visit and fecal and the vet could not find anything wrong -- fecal was good, her grip was good and she appeared healthy -- no dehydration, not skinny.

Another forum member said to start cutting her feeding to every other day. I have not seen her eat in some time, -- but I do know she is eating because her food disappears. I have tried to install a camera but the location and density of her cage makes it impossible to mount a camera where I can see her during the day.

After the initial vet visit I did not see her with her eyes closed during the day -- she was still only hanging out in the bottom part of the enclosure. In the mornings, she will move briefly, but always return to that spot.

There is another vet that see's chameleons relatively close to me, so we went there, had another fecal done, and again they could not find anything wrong.

I know something is wrong. Two days in a row recently I found her sleeping with her lights on, on the lowest branch. I'm concerned she is not basking. Couple of times I moved her up to her basking spot and she climbed right back down to the lowest branch.

With the light on top of the cage the UV reads 3 at her basking branch.

I've neglected taking this to the forums as I wanted to consult vets first, but with what's going on and Mona still not laying I'm concerned I'm having a lapse in my husbandry. I'm at a loss and feeling frustrated and defeated. I don't know what I can do next.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Hi love. I would stop the repashy LoD and go back to the conventional supplement method. See if this helps her. Some chams do not do well with the LoD.

I thought about that, but she had that schedule before she came to me and was not having this behavior -- granted it could be long term. I will switch her supplements and see if that helps.
 
I'm at a loss, Sable is doing everything that I was doing for her when I had her.
 
Any plant lights? Pic of her setup? The reason I ask is one of my girls (also 8ish months) has been making me about whether she's gravid, sick, or moody. A recent vet visit cleared her health wise, and he did not detect eggs. Her behavior was that she'd stay in one spot... a vertical branch directly under her plant light, very close to the top of the cage. Then I caught her closing one eye. I gave her a long mist to rinse her eyes (just in case), and I turned off the plant light. She was more or less staring at it from the angle of the branch, so I think it was too bright and hurting her eyes. That solved the eye issue, but she was still staying in one spot, not much activity. So I thinned out her cage, which was getting very lush. All of my panthers like to be out in the open, and only retreat to the denser plants to sleep or hide from me/misters. Once I thinned out her cage she was much more active.

No idea if this is helpful. Since she's closing her eyes and so low in the cage, I doubt its the same issues, but just sharing my experience in case it helps.
 
I thought about that, but she had that schedule before she came to me and was not having this behavior -- granted it could be long term. I will switch her supplements and see if that helps.

Personally I would (and have) just go to plain calcium for 2 weeks if you plan to try another supplement schedule. Since she's getting D3 and Vitamins with every feeding, it gives her a chance to reset. Then start your biweekly d3/vit. I use LoD for all my guys, but I have switched to just plain calcium on occasion.
 
I know you must have a laying bin for her. Did you have x rays or ultra sound? I wonder if this egg binding or cystic ovaries, she is old enough to produce eggs. I've been researching this a bit so it is on my mind. She is young for any of this.
She does have a permanent lay bin -- the vet did not think she was gravid but did not do an ultra sound. Both vets felt her belly -- one said he did not think he could feel eggs but also said the follicles would be so small he probably couldn't. Second vet said he did not feel anything that felt like eggs. I am thinking of going back and asking for an ultrasound.
I know you must have a laying bin for her. Did you have x rays or ultra sound? I wonder if this egg binding or cystic ovaries, she is old enough to produce eggs. I've been researching this a bit so it is on my mind. She is young for any of this.
Yes she has a lay bin and the vets did not suspect egg development but did not do an ultrasound

Any plant lights? Pic of her setup? The reason I ask is one of my girls (also 8ish months) has been making me about whether she's gravid, sick, or moody. A recent vet visit cleared her health wise, and he did not detect eggs. Her behavior was that she'd stay in one spot... a vertical branch directly under her plant light, very close to the top of the cage. Then I caught her closing one eye. I gave her a long mist to rinse her eyes (just in case), and I turned off the plant light. She was more or less staring at it from the angle of the branch, so I think it was too bright and hurting her eyes. That solved the eye issue, but she was still staying in one spot, not much activity. So I thinned out her cage, which was getting very lush. All of my panthers like to be out in the open, and only retreat to the denser plants to sleep or hide from me/misters. Once I thinned out her cage she was much more active.

No idea if this is helpful. Since she's closing her eyes and so low in the cage, I doubt its the same issues, but just sharing my experience in case it helps.

Yes -- I should have mentioned I have a t5ho linear 65k plant bulb and a small LED plant light at the top of her enclosure. This is her enclosure -- This is before she got here -- I was testing all her stuff -- hence the fogger with the lights on.

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Are you still able to hand feed her silks?
No :-(

Have the vets run any blood work to check organ function?

Yes they ran blood work -- I do not have the results yet.

Personally I would (and have) just go to plain calcium for 2 weeks if you plan to try another supplement schedule. Since she's getting D3 and Vitamins with every feeding, it gives her a chance to reset. Then start your biweekly d3/vit. I use LoD for all my guys, but I have switched to just plain calcium on occasion.

I will try this, thank you.

I'm at a loss, Sable is doing everything that I was doing for her when I had her.

Thanks Tony. I appreciate you and the help / support you've provided throughout this.
 
Just for giggles, can you turn off the plant light? Again, I doubt its the culprit... Lola was very close to the light, but its easy enough to turn off. Has she been active in the cage in the past, or just recently reclusive?
 
Just for giggles, can you turn off the plant light? Again, I doubt its the culprit... Lola was very close to the light, but its easy enough to turn off. Has she been active in the cage in the past, or just recently reclusive?
Really -- she has been reclusive since I got her. At first I chalked it up to "new place" fears but now I'm concerned.

She behaves polar opposite of Mona, so I didn't know if it was just a different "personality" or not, but I don't think it is.

Rarely (like, three times total now), I can find her in another spot, VERY hidden -- I have to lift the bamboo off the side to find her.

I'll try turning the lights off. I may have to try these things in waves -- as I don't want to change too much at one time. *sigh*
 
Me too, I hope the bloodwork helps you. I know these little guys (especially little ladies) can really worry us. If bloodwork looks ok I'd try to remove one of the potted plants, and turn off the plant light for a few days... to give her a more open space up top. If she's anything like my crew, all 4 of them want to be out in the open up top. Lola, in particular, finds the most open spot and parks herself there almost all day. With her closing her eyes, I don't think this is the answer, but it did help my girl. My veileds like the more dense plants but my panthers avoid them altogether.
 
I'm so sorry to hear you're having a tough time with your girls!

I second taking her off LoD and going to plain calcium for a week before resuming a "traditional" supplement schedule. Lily was doing well on LoD for 6+ months, and then started declining... though a fair bit of that can be attributed to her UVB ovrexposure. Can't hurt might help! Seems like some individuals (particularly females) are sensitive to LoD.
 
Maybe she just misses me.

Joking aside, lets hope changing the supplements helps her.

At first I thought it was just the stress from shipping, but as I had her for longer her routine and personality did not really change. At first she roamed a bit -- but that quickly stopped. I'm truly at a loss. I will change the supplements and hope that helps.

I'm pretty sure you used LoD, yeah?
 
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