draetish
Avid Member
It's a long story and I'll pm you about.
To Euthanize or not...
- Thread starter FFSTRescue
- Start date
It's a long story and I'll pm you about.
IMHO, if you take her off all "life support" and she goes down hill, then as sad as it is she should be euthanized because she can't make it on her own.
Can you explain to me (just curious) what in her test results indicates there is no hope for her recovery? (I'm not a vet, so please explain it taking that into consideration.)
Can you explain to me (just curious) what in her test results indicates there is no hope for her recovery? (I'm not a vet, so please explain it taking that into consideration.)
Elizadolots
New Member
This is the hard part of pet ownership. It is our responsibility to make sure we don't drag their existence on for our own emotional benefit.
I hate it. But, when you know it's your pet's time, then the only responsible thing to do is let it go painlessly.
I hate it. But, when you know it's your pet's time, then the only responsible thing to do is let it go painlessly.
FFSTRescue
New Member
Blood work is not used solely to predict an animals fate, and this website explains why ... http://www.anapsid.org/labtests.html
You have to take into consideration all aspects to determine what is actually going on with reptiles. If there is an "abnormality" in the basic profile, further tests need to be done, for example if a person's cortisol levels are not within range, a more in-depth ACTH stim test is done to assess adrenal gland function.
In my chameleon's situation, it is the fact that she does have to be on life-support in order to survive, and when I stop the life-support (good term by the way, that is exactly what it is), she wilts like a flower. That is the number one indicator that there is a major bodily malfunction, especially when different therapies have been utilized, and were unsuccessful, it indicates that the problem is chronic, and not an easily fixable acute condition. I have not had specific tests done to check exact pancreatic and liver function, and the thing is I don't really need to, because signs, symptoms, and initial lab results speak volumes. For example, if she does not receive SQ fluids as well as 20 cc of water daily (which is a TON), she shows severe signs of dehydration... however this leads to other problems which I will explain in a second. I stopped with the SQ fluids a couple days ago, and she is not absorbing water for her cells to utilize, which is apparent by looking at her, as well as her PCV/TP (packed-cell volume/total protein) which shows if an animal's blood is so dehydrated that there is very little serum compared to red blood cells.
One condition also leads to another, for example, excessive uric acid build-up in the blood increases the thirst, and increases the amount of water needed to flush the nitrogenous wastes out of the blood-stream, however, this excess water also rids the bloodstream of essential electrolytes, causing further problems. It is a lose-lose situation.
Also, upon x-ray, the size of the organs in question are measured, and if excessively enlarged, that confirms the diagnosis of kidney failure based on symptoms, blood results, and radiograph.
That is the tricky part about veterinary medicine, it is easy for people to be one-track minded about their approach to animal care, and when you are focused on one thing alone, which is easy to do, you miss an obvious diagnosis. The big picture is what is key to diagnosis. It sounds easier said than done, but it took me years to actually get it down.
She is not doing well, I am going to have her euthanized in the morning. At least she was given a chance and she has made me very passionate about her species. I really want to acquire CB Melleri, and eventually breed them, or at least try to promoting acquiring the species through a breeder so less of these animals are taken from the wild and tortured like she was. She won't have died in vain.
Elizadolots
New Member
She did not die in vain... That's the one certainty. She gave you a very special memory. You will never forget her.
FFSTRescue
New Member
draetish
Avid Member
Thank you for that indepth explanation and sharing your extensive knowledge with us. Melleri are different than other chams and their health issues requires alot of knowledge of this paticular species. Melleri Discovery is an awesome webiste to gain knowledge of the different medications Melleri do well and don't do well with. It seems Melleri are really gaining the respect and admiration they deserve.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, it's way past time for Meller's! The reality that we now have some true cbb melleri is fantastic. A lot of work to get there and true dedication. Some of us were lucky enough to have a healthy wc melleri to share our lives with. My first melleri was one of those huge, healthy, mellow, almost friendly ones who roamed my house for years. I still miss her a decade later.
FFSTRescue
New Member
Well, I had to euthanize her today. She really went downhill overnight and it was the best thing for her. I felt a sense of relief as she is not suffering anymore. I held her in my hands as the vet injected her and she held onto me and had her tail tightly wrapped around my hand the whole time... it was very peaceful. I'm glad I was there holding her as she passed. For anyone that thinks chameleons don't recognize those who care for them, they are wrong. She would not let anyone else get near her but me while in my care. She will truly be missed and has inspired me to work extensively with this species. I guarantee you will see CBB Melleri from me in the future. Thank you to all of you who gave such kind words and expressed concern and interest with your questions and comments. If any of you want to know the results of the necropsy, please let me know.
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
That is so sad, but now she is at peace and pain free, bless her. These creatures touch you far more deeply than any other kind of pet. Lily's death hit me much harder than I was ever expecting. It is nice to be with them at the end though. At least you got to say goodbye, and I'm sure she knew how much you loved her.
skully23
New Member
That would have made me cry. You describe it very well like I could even imagine it. Its so hard to let go when you know it needs to be done. Sorry you had to but I guess it was the best thing.
FFSTRescue
New Member
Necropsy results overview...
Thank you everyone for such kind words, I really needed that because part of me feels like a failure for allowing her to die. However, necropsy results showed small intestine necrosis, and it was severe. It was so severel that her stomach contents were full of hornworms she had been given two days ago, so not only was the SI (small intestine) unable to digest food, it had gotten to the point where peristalsis wasn't even allowing food into the SI, causing stomach impaction. The duodenum and jejunum (first and second part of the small intestine) were completely necrotic beyond repair so food was not even able to pass through, which is why worms were coming out whole. She had no chance for survival). This was most likely caused from Mesenteric Ischemia, where the arteries leading to the small intestine are blocked, leading to necrosis (death of the tissue). Her pancreas was also severely compromised, almost looking completely necrotic as well. Her gall-bladder was swollen as she was not able to release bile. She turned out to be a he, and the testicles were absolutely tiny, which is why we thought female upon radiograph. The poor little boy did not have a chance. If you want more detail about what causes atherosclerosis in the mesenteric arteries, feel free to PM me. Sorry for the morbid results, but I feel it is important for everyone to know what can happen to wc reptiles.
Thank you everyone for such kind words, I really needed that because part of me feels like a failure for allowing her to die. However, necropsy results showed small intestine necrosis, and it was severe. It was so severel that her stomach contents were full of hornworms she had been given two days ago, so not only was the SI (small intestine) unable to digest food, it had gotten to the point where peristalsis wasn't even allowing food into the SI, causing stomach impaction. The duodenum and jejunum (first and second part of the small intestine) were completely necrotic beyond repair so food was not even able to pass through, which is why worms were coming out whole. She had no chance for survival). This was most likely caused from Mesenteric Ischemia, where the arteries leading to the small intestine are blocked, leading to necrosis (death of the tissue). Her pancreas was also severely compromised, almost looking completely necrotic as well. Her gall-bladder was swollen as she was not able to release bile. She turned out to be a he, and the testicles were absolutely tiny, which is why we thought female upon radiograph. The poor little boy did not have a chance. If you want more detail about what causes atherosclerosis in the mesenteric arteries, feel free to PM me. Sorry for the morbid results, but I feel it is important for everyone to know what can happen to wc reptiles.
FFSTRescue
New Member
After reading about mesenteric ischemia, I am glad she was on morphine, as it helps relieve the pain of that condition. Here is a link that talks about it in mammals, and it is very similar to reptiles despite the fact that we have a hepatic portal system compared to their renal portal system, but it is basically the same for the most part...
http://www.vascularweb.org/patients/NorthPoint/Mesenteric_Ischemia.html
http://www.vascularweb.org/patients/NorthPoint/Mesenteric_Ischemia.html
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
my Sympathy is yours. Having had to make this choice before myself (different circumstances), I know it is not easy, but yet it was the right thing to do.
bradleymarky
New Member
sorry for your loss, its been a very moving story
FFSTRescue
New Member
No parasites were found when I did the fecal, the person who had him before me had him tested and there were some protozoa, in low numbers, which is usually normal, which he was treated for.
He had a large clot in the superior mesenteric artery leading to the small intestine, which would explain why the SI and pancreas both were pretty much black. The clot was pretty large and obvious so I am guessing it was an acute onset, which would explain why he showed obvious signs of ill health overnight. He was fine one day, and the next day was defecating whole food and was lethargic. Acute attacks cause rapid deterioration. The sad thing is that his liver and kidneys looked good, despite the bloodwork indicating there was an obvious problem, which is why one has to look at the whole picture in vet medicine. So there are other issues that cause our animals to die, not just supplementation and dehydration issues. I don't know much about this condition in depth, but I'm guessing it was stress induced, such as with strokes and myocardial infarctions. I have started doing research of the effect of beta-blockers in reptiles, possibly lowering their stress-induced blood pressure (as it does in humans), and the fatal results of that hypertension... I'm looking forward to seeing what I find out.
