the type of person I fear as a owner

little leaf

Avid Member
there is a post on here- I will not say where , but it is also on another site- I wont say that one either , or the name of the person - but the post just makes me so angry - or am I the one not thinking clearly ? basically, the post is about a cham they got for like $70 - there were here on the forum asking for help w/ this cham- then, on "another site" - they go on to say it died, and it would be foolish to have taken it to the vet because " it did not cost that much" and why take it to the vet - I am sorry, but if you are going to purchase a cham, I personally think if it needs to go to the vet - YOU TAKE IT ! this is just the type of person who will NEVER own one of my babies - I do know there is a limit at the vets too- I just had this convo/ - about taking a cham to the vet, and making the visit worth while - as far as doing the basics - or even a bit more if needed- what I spent on my little rescue Gail- OMG- she died anyway- but had I not taken her, my guilt of not doing all I could would have eaten me alive - and what I learned from her, I could never put a price on - I am not a rich person- I give up many things to care for my chams ( time, $, a life :p ) I was just wondering how many people have this mind set when the buy a cham- " it did not cost that much, so I will let it die if it cant make it on its own" :( :mad: :mad: what kind of heartless person can watch cham after cham die like that ?
I just want to go off on this " person" - or should I just keep my mouth shut?
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
I'm definitely not going to tell you to go after anyone, and please don't name anyone or do anything publicly here.

I understand how frustrating hearing things like that can be, but you're not going to change their minds. You can't convince someone that a creature has more than just monetary value who doesn't believe it, regardless of how hard you try.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are attracted to reptiles on a purely for profit basis. Some butt-hat that I used to work with had essentially zero experience with reptiles (or love of reptiles), but after seeing how profitable ball pythons were he rushed in to get in on the action. He told me that he didn't name the snakes, he didn't take them out and enjoy them, they were purely animals in a box, with some heat and water, that were making him money. Had one of his normal offpsring males gotten sick, I'm pretty sure he would have just killed them. Where as a female was more valuable (aka, a money-maker) and would get medical attention. He was particularly moronic with his snake "business" but he's only one of a hundred people I know who think like this.

You can't change people like that. Things just break down into dollar signs, and not unquantifiable worth.
 

Decadancin

Moderatoris Americanus
Staff member
People have animals for many different reasons. I find that many have them as a status symbol, some for a hobby, some for genuine interest, and some consider them part of their family. (There are many other reasons :rolleyes:) It is not my place to tell people what to do with their pets, but I do agree that if you take on the responsibility, you should do everything you can to take the best care of them.
I can't stand when people take the time to ask for advice and help for their chams, and then you can just tell they are not willing to follow through with the advice, so they keep posting on how they think things are a little better today even though they have tried nothing to help, only to be followed by the inevitable "______ passed away today" thread. (I'm not saying this about anyone specific so don't assume I mean anyone by this, just the feeling when reading these types of posts)

I know I would do anything possible for my pets, (and have sacrificed a lot for them) and I wouldn't have them if I wasn't willing to, but I also know not everyone is in my situation. Not everyone can just get up and run to the vet or pay for a surgery, or whatever it takes. It is really aggravating when these people have issues with one pet, and just keep repeating the practice with the next without trying to improve.
 

little leaf

Avid Member
I'm definitely not going to tell you to go after anyone, and please don't name anyone or do anything publicly here.

no, I know , I would never say the name - I do not know them "personally" - or I would be smacking them up side the thick head - lol

I guess you are right, if they dont care, they dont care - I just will never understand how some ppl can do NOTHING to help - when my daughter wanted a ferret, she knew ahead of time she first had to save up her "vet fund" - same when my son wanted a dog- before they are aloud to even get any kind of pet, they both had to save $200 for a vet fund- THEN they were aloud to start saving for the pet itself - thats just how it is here- I do not see any pet as "worthless" - Gail was brought to me, so I did not even spend .01 on the purchase, but I knew she would be costly at the vet- I took her knowing this- and I do not regret $1 of it - I am just glad there are also many who do take the very best of care of their chammy's needs :)
 

little leaf

Avid Member
People have animals for many different reasons. I find that many have them as a status symbol, some for a hobby, some for genuine interest, and some consider them part of their family. (There are many other reasons :rolleyes:) It is not my place to tell people what to do with their pets, but I do agree that if you take on the responsibility, you should do everything you can to take the best care of them.
I can't stand when people take the time to ask for advice and help for their chams, and then you can just tell they are not willing to follow through with the advice, so they keep posting on how they think things are a little better today even though they have tried nothing to help, only to be followed by the inevitable "______ passed away today" thread. (I'm not saying this about anyone specific so don't assume I mean anyone by this, just the feeling when reading these types of posts)

I know I would do anything possible for my pets, (and have sacrificed a lot for them) and I wouldn't have them if I wasn't willing to, but I also know not everyone is in my situation. Not everyone can just get up and run to the vet or pay for a surgery, or whatever it takes. It is really aggravating when these people have issues with one pet, and just keep repeating the practice with the next without trying to improve.

I know what you mean - I am in that boat at times too- and I do understand that there has to be a "cut off" for $ too - would I spend $1,000 at the vet on Olive- IF $ was not an issue- yes I would - but $ IS an issue- if she became sick, and needed a $1K surgery, I could not do it- but at least I would know I made the effort to fix what was wrong- I know there are limits - but like you said, some ask for the help, then wont even fill out the "ask for help" - I just do not understand that ? I am not trying to say not spending all you can at the vet is wrong- I know not everyone can go to the vets, it is costly- my issue w/ this person was their statement on how "worthless" and " throw away pets" they see them as- and I also know there are so many who come here, and DO what is suggested , and no matter if the cahms lives, or dies, at least they did all they could and cared - :)
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
Some people should not keep reptiles as they don't care for them properly. I love my chams, I will drive a long distance to a vet, pay what ever it cost, and know I did all of what I could do.

Not to start a battle but some people should not have kids for the same reason, they don't love and care for them properly.

Sadly we as a society are looking at more and more things as disposable. What a terrible way for me to feel about the world I live in.
 

moogle73

New Member
Some people should not keep reptiles as they don't care for them properly. I love my chams, I will drive a long distance to a vet, pay what ever it cost, and know I did all of what I could do.

Not to start a battle but some people should not have kids for the same reason, they don't love and care for them properly.

Sadly we as a society are looking at more and more things as disposable. What a terrible way for me to feel about the world I live in.


yeah its a real shame, but I feel its more than just reptiles. Its more of a society issue IMO, there seems to be a large portion of people (obviously not everyone, but substantial enough that its quite noticeable) who just have little or no regard for life in general. Whether that be reptile, mammals, birds, or even humans (yes i know we're mammals lol), it seems too many people just simply take life for granted, and have little to no regard for taking it from others.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Ah yes, the I'm-not-really-asking-for-advice,-just-validation-that-I'm-doing-things-correctly-and-it's-my-animal's-fault-their-sick threads. Always a classic!

I think we all know (painfully) how expensive chameleon medical bills can be, and obviously not everyone can spend as much as it takes to get them better sometimes. But to use the excuse of "what's the point, it was a $20 veiled I got at a show" is just cold. Better to get into keeping pet rocks, it's cheaper.
 
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deadhd5

Avid Member
.....Sadly we as a society are looking at more and more things as disposable.

That pretty much sums it up.

Our society is pathologically narcisistic and shallow. Our culture teaches people, animals, things are just here to serve our interests and then be thrown away. This sentiment is pervasive in pop culture.

The only comfort I can offer is that people like this are destined to end up unhappy and unfulfilled...
 

qdude46

Member
This is kind of the whole reason I want to get a Pygmy rather than a big Cham because vet bills are smaller and if I had a large Cham but I couldn't afford a vet, I would just feel so guilty and I have friends who have gotten the same pet I did after I got just because they like the thought of it and they don't even care and there's no sadness when the animal died and it just makes me sick.
 

lovepicasso

New Member
This kind of attitude of any pet makes me sick, I have known people with that same attitude and they are no longer a friend.
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
I REALLY dislike people like this. When you take on a pet (any pet) it should be your responsibility to care for it and that means financially too. If you can’t afford to pay for surgery, then send it to a rescue group or have your animal humanly put down. Don't allow it to suffer for week’s even months until it finally passed. Chameleons are such precious pets it really hurts me to read allot of the post and look at some of the pictures where people have allowed there little guys to become so very ill. It also bothers me when they are not given a forever home. Can you imagine how scary and hard it is for them to be passed around? It also really bothers me to see people go through chameleon after chameleon. In most cases if you provide proper care and vets visits when needed you should have your chameleon with you for years. I have seen people go through several sets of chameleons in only a few years. Some people are not meant to have animals at all.
 
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Mr Jingles

New Member
I agree wholeheartely, I am new in reptiles (2 veileds, 1 kenyan sand boa and 1 beardie). Always wanted, but could never afford. Now I am in a position to properly look after them. The veileds are as healthy as can be, but the beardie is a pet shop rescue that has cost me more on vet bills than his whole setup together. However, I took him knowing that fully and are not regretting one cent that I have spent on him. And he is getting better and stronger by the day. So people who cant afford it should rather get a goldfish
 

little leaf

Avid Member
Ah yes, the I'm-not-really-asking-for-advice,-just-validation-that-I'm-doing-things-correctly-and-it's-my-animal's-fault-their-sick threads. Always a classic!

I think we all know (painfully) how expensive chameleon medical bills can be, and obviously not everyone can spend as much as it takes to get them better sometimes. But to use the excuse of "what's the point, it was a $20 veiled I got at a show" is just cold. Better to get into keeping pet rocks, it's cheaper.

YES YES YES - :D I could have not said it better :D THANK YOU :p


Not to start a battle but some people should not have kids for the same reason, they don't love and care for them properly.

Sadly we as a society are looking at more and more things as disposable. What a terrible way for me to feel about the world I live in.

Laurie, I could not agree more - that is why after only one semester, I gave up child physiology, I knew there was no way I could sit across the desk and listen to some *** try to tell me why they abused their child - and justify it - so I changed to OSU and Horse husbandry Barn mgmt - :D


This is kind of the whole reason I want to get a Pygmy rather than a big Cham because vet bills are smaller

its good you are thinking about vet care- but I know my Panther and my 2 gram baby both cost the same for what ever they need- still $65 to walk in no matter the size


deadhd5, you are so right ~



lovepicasso, Jann & Mr Jingles, Thanks for your input- we all see eye to eye :D

I am glad all my friends on here think alike :D
 

stalincat

Member
I remember somebody here posted 'Oh my veiled girl is dying and I'm not taking her to the vet, will just wait cause there's not much i can do.. oh how heartbroken I am let me bask in your compassion, by the way I already ordered a panther male to go into this cage'. I don't really get into arguments on the internet, but I did have a go at that person and told them they should not keep animals at all. That was a few months after I had to pay £470 for Ripley's surgery, and even though I could afford it, it still was an 'ouch' for my finances.
Also on uk reptile forums I see ' swap my X for your Y' quite often.. How does that work? 'Oh I'm bored of my chameleon, why don't I get a water dragon instead? And then when I get bored of it, I can swap it for a snake'. It's a living creature not a toy for f's sake!
Some people are just (uhm how to put it in PG12 way).. oh you got my point
 

Decadancin

Moderatoris Americanus
Staff member
I think that is the exact thing that gets me mad as Hell!
"I'm having a problem with my new chameleon... need help... Don't know why he's not moving... ... I'm starting to breed these two!!! Hows the setup?"

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I just don't think people give things much thought. I saved a section in my blog for "Things I Didn't Post..." but this is a good thread to post how I feel :D. People don't give much thought into a lot of things and the animal suffers because of it. Very selfish if you ask me,... which you didn't :rolleyes:, but then to see them make the same mistake over and over again is unacceptable. I have seen a few members here tell the story of how they need to get rid of their chams due to situations outside of their control, and then a week later they have a "Meet My New Friend" thread. It doesn't make sense to me... O.K., I'm just going off on everything now. Sorry... :eek:
 

little leaf

Avid Member
I'm just going off on everything now. Sorry... :eek:

It's ok - I think this is a good " VENT IT" - thread :)

let it out ppl :)

I know sometimes I just want to post "not so nice" things too - on the idiot post - but on the other hand, I am very quick to post support and encouragement for the ones who need it- and are really doing all they can for a hurt/sick cham - and I know sometimes the forum is all the resource some ppl have, I had a heck of a time finding a GOOD herp vet, I was lucky- I only have to drive 1.5 hrs to get to my vet- but some in small towns just do not have the option for a vet - so they come here, those ppl, I feel bad for, but they care enough to try at least- the other " its not worth a vet visit" - :mad: :mad: :mad: UGH !
 

Jupiter

Member
My favorite is when people come asking for advice, and then don't take it. Its just like look at his sig! Look at his profile! This guy has fifty thousand post and nine hundred chams. LISTEN TO HIM.

There was a thread a while back where someone was trying to breed their chams (which common sense should dictate isn't a good idea for beginners anyway) and the female wasn't doing well. It started off good, then quickly devolved to every other post being "So I moved her again/made some dramatic change to her enclosure/stuck the male in her face, why isn't she laying?", alternating with "LEAVE. HER. ALONE. Leaverheralone." This went on for literally like 20 pages until she got eggbound, and had to have surgery, which sterilized her. Shortly after (or maybe even in the same post, I can't remember) they were talking about getting another female so they could try again. The thread pretty much died then, presumably because there was only one thing to say at that point and no good way to say it. I won't link it or anything, but if you read it you probably know what I'm talking about; it was pretty memorable.
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
Eh i when i talk to non herpers, they are shocked there are lizard vets, and that i take them to the vet...

Pretty sure there are fish vets out there too...
 

Breezy9

New Member
I worked at a vet. You see it all the time not just with reptiles. Flyers saying "Needs home-new apt won't allow pets."
THEN YOU DON'T MOVE THERE!!!
I really don't get it!
My pets are my babies as much as my daughters are! I'm almost positive this post is not about me but unfortunately, my husband currently (and I previously-I am now a mom) work in the animal field see it so much. It's so sad.
I did everything I could for my Zelda and she is pulling through so well. I'm so proud of her and grateful to everyone here for all of their help and support. I honestly could not have done it without this site and will always do everything I can for my babies.
 
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