Tanzania Bans Wildlife Exports

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Motherlode: Is your stand with any animal from tanzania for pleasure or legitimate research?

My stand is that working with chameleons is a privileged of accomplished wild land conservation. That meaning if a chameleons species native range is protected and secure seeing specimens in captivity occasionally is appropriate. While if habitat or other threats to a less protected chameleon species are present they should not be seen in captivity or at least until the situation changes.

When you say for pleasure or research I mean both. Most importantly one over looked fact is that working with chameleons from Tanzania gives people abroad a connection to conservation in Tanzania and makes them more connected to conservation issues in a part of the world that normally most people would not give a dam about. This being a great way to start kids and other people to become involved about world wide wildlife conservation. As well I'm not for high quotas however I think small numbers should be allowed for us bio greeks to breed and provide the majority of the animals in captivity. I think suspending small number exports all together would server a connection to these areas from keepers around the world and would be a step backwards instead of a step forwards for conservation of chameleons in that part of the world. I think seeing chameleons exported in small numbers for breeders around the world is an important issue towards making more people become involved in conservation issues in Tanzania. Meaning if the species is conserved in their native habitat I think small numbers should be exported for Biology fans around the world.

 

[Cainschams]

cain: imo we are all greedy. for me it doesnt mean i have to work with every species to feel accomplished or to satisfy my desire because a animal is plentiful in the wild. many of our captured species we have now need more research and people like you with great knowledge could do some species a great deal. 90% of the many wild caughts i see monthly die. If a law was in place for all animals welfare and it was actually enforced and governed. i would feel different.

are you against the ban? if so, whats your reason?

Motherlode: Is your stand with any animal from tanzania for pleasure or legitimate research?

See, I thought we might have the some shared opinions on this

Personally I agree with the ban. The quotas are set up to help conserve the animals while still allowing them to be caught in numbers to satisfy our greed/curiosity/etc. Some of the quotas are outrageous and probably should be lowered even though research says these numbers can be taken without hurting the populations. Here is how I see it. When a country cant keep the illegal smuggling from happening then the only or best way to keep that in check would be to ban all exports like what has happened. Id like to think banning all exports would keep the smuggling at bay but I just cant help to think its still going to be happening. I just hope with much lower instances.

This is why I was interested in your opinion. Im sure you see much more WCs than the majority of us. This is another aspect that is ridiculous. When the majority of animals that are allowed out just end up dying shortly after they get to where they are going then something also needs to be done on that end. I could say lower the quotas and higher the price but I doubt that will have anything to do with how the animals are treated from exporter to importer to seller to consumer.Then, if they were treated better you have the species that just do not acclimate to captivity no matter if they come in good shape or not. Its a terrible cycle and yes, call me a hypocrite and many others because we still support this in our greed/curiosity/whatever you want to call it, to keep these animals.

Only letting these animals out for research is fine by me but I highly doubt 1% of the keepers on this form would be allowed to keep the ones out for research. They will be sent to zoos, educational researchers etc. They arent going to send Ole Cainer K. tavetana just because I have hatched out 4 clutches of them and have had limited success.

 

[Seeco]

Food for thought -- one female chameleon Kinyongia can lay 6 - 26 eggs...

 

[Thezillaman21]

Food for thought -- one female chameleon Kinyongia can lay 6 - 26 eggs...

i find that a surprise. i looked this up (google) and i think i seen 6-12 or maybe it was 6-14? idk, but im takeing your word for it considering your probably the most experienced breeder with kinyongia or atleast that i know of.

 

[Seeco]

i find that a surprise. i looked this up (google) and i think i seen 6-12 or maybe it was 6-14? idk, but im takeing your word for it considering your probably the most experienced breeder with kinyongia or atleast that i know of.

Affirmative

 

[Chase]

Is it true they have lifted some of their restrictions?

LPR08

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Has anyone heard an official update as to the current status of Tanzania's reptile exports? There were a couple of shipments from Tanzania however Tanzania still seems to be officially closed regarding reptile exports.

 

[Chase]

No idea... However, I know FirstChoiceReptiles is supposed to get their shipment in soon.

-Chase

 

[ataraxia]

I was told farms are collecting these animals from other regions..Holding them for a certain period of time and stating they are collecting from the local area. I dont how true this all is as my source of that information is half full of sh@# most of the time but it did however make sense.

 

[Seeco]

my source of that information is half full of sh@# most of the time but it did however make sense.

LOL. Well you guys know what I am hoping for. All I can say is that if they DO start shipping don't buy imported Kinyongia multituberculata. Get American made from me

 

[CNorton]

What a boring year it has been for Kingsnake Classifieds, huh? Not a single Tanzanian import and no sign of any in the future. Does anyone know anything about why they haven't started importing again?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

What a boring year it has been for Kingsnake Classifieds, huh? Not a single Tanzanian import and no sign of any in the future. Does anyone know anything about why they haven't started importing again?

LLL had one B grade shipment of Tanzania chameleons come in earlier this year other than that I could not tell you whats going on. Chris mentioned something about a problem with airlines companies shipping out of Tanzania. Has anyone else heard more?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Here is an article from the other day about the ongoing investigations: http://thecitizen.co.tz/component/c...-interpols-dubai-link-in-tz-animals-scam.html

While I don't know the exact day they are considering the ban having gone into effect, it is coming up on a year since the ban. As mentioned in the article, the ban was at least originally a one-year ban to investigate and close loopholes, etc. Time will tell but even if it does open up again, CITES is conducting a review of significant trade on K. tavetana and K. fischeri from Tanzania, which could significantly effect their export from Tanzania in a few years.

Chris

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Here is an article from the other day about the ongoing investigations: http://thecitizen.co.tz/component/c...-interpols-dubai-link-in-tz-animals-scam.html

While I don't know the exact day they are considering the ban having gone into effect, it is coming up on a year since the ban. As mentioned in the article, the ban was at least originally a one-year ban to investigate and close loopholes, etc. Time will tell but even if it does open up again, CITES is conducting a review of significant trade on K. tavetana and K. fischeri from Tanzania, which could significantly effect their export from Tanzania in a few years.

Chris

Thanks for the link and feedback.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

The reason why we still see shipments from Tanzania, is because these Shipments was ordered before the ban.
I have talked with several people selling wc Tanzania animals and the only reason they got these new shipments, was because they payed for them before the ban.

And yes, we will still see animals from farms coming out and properly also wc animals sold as farmraised.

Time will tell

 

[Seeco]

Thanks for the intel folks. I think that is good news. I mean we dont want a ton of of wasteful harvesting and shipping but we dont want a complete ban either. Please pm me if you know anything specific about K. multituberculata.

 

[mphelps]

Here is a news piece on the firing of officials in Tanzanian Ministry of Wildlife and Tourism following the illegal export of animals to Qatar:

http://www.eturbonews.com/30637/tanzania-director-wildlife-sacked-over-illegal-wildlife-export

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Here is a news piece on the firing of officials in Tanzanian Ministry of Wildlife and Tourism following the illegal export of animals to Qatar:

http://www.eturbonews.com/30637/tanzania-director-wildlife-sacked-over-illegal-wildlife-export

Mike thanks for posting the article.

 

[filups21]

It certainly is an interesting story to follow - the illegal exports happened in Nov. 2010, public outcry finally got bad enough that the government had to do something to appease the public in Aug. 2011, and now people are getting fired, with prosecution likely to follow. Are these guys really the root problem, or just the best scapegoats available?

An important note to remember is that Tanzania has also recently withdrawn its application to have the Eastern Arc Mountains (where many of its chameleons occur) listed as a UN World Heritage Site TFCG. So instead of receiving extra international protection, things continue as usual. My point being that self-sustaining breeding programs (that aren't bolstered by a constant influx of WC individuals) and interest from private collectors (to support said breeding programs) are very important to the conservation of these animals.

 

[kameleons jvo]

It certainly is an interesting story to follow - the illegal exports happened in Nov. 2010, public outcry finally got bad enough that the government had to do something to appease the public in Aug. 2011, and now people are getting fired, with prosecution likely to follow. Are these guys really the root problem, or just the best scapegoats available?

An important note to remember is that Tanzania has also recently withdrawn its application to have the Eastern Arc Mountains (where many of its chameleons occur) listed as a UN World Heritage Site TFCG. So instead of receiving extra international protection, things continue as usual. My point being that self-sustaining breeding programs (that aren't bolstered by a constant influx of WC individuals) and interest from private collectors (to support said breeding programs) are very important to the conservation of these animals.

Fully agree with you!