Taking in a female Panther

[OctopusMafia]

I am looking into taking on a female Panther chameleon (not sure what locality yet) for an acquaintance who has cancer and can't take care of her anymore. I currently keep Gargoyle and Crested geckos and I was hoping to get some thoughts, advice or tips from other forum members to help me out in addition to doing my own research! If there are any questions that I could/should ask in addition to what I've included in this post, please let me know.

My first thought was that chameleons are supposed to be hard to keep but after doing a bit of research, but from my bit of research Panthers seem to be one of the better 'beginner' chameleons (correct me if I am wrong, please!) This cham is also an adult, or at least a year old, so hopefully less touchy on care than a baby. I also work from home, so I'm around most days to keep an eye on temps and humidity. I would definitely keep her in another room from my reptiles for a few months, and though the weather is turning cold here, I can open windows and take her outside for sunlight, as long as the weather holds.
(scroll past the massive pic for more info!)

The owner would include the cage (not sure of the size, needs to be at least 18x18x36 for adult female,) heating/lamps, humidifier, everything they have for her; I was happy to see that she has live plants in her cage, and that she looks healthy in the picture. She's a very nice looking female, her main diet is crickets and she looks like she's being treated well. Apparently, she's blind in one eye but from what I'm told she has no problem whatsoever catching her food (I assume a past eye infection, I am asking the owner for more details.)

I have asked where the cham was purchased, whether they have a preferred vet and if they know her locale by any chance. Waiting to hear back from the owner, currently. I want to make sure I'm not taking on a reptile with health problems due to improper diet or something, though she looks to be in good condition. Though, that doesn't really mean a whole lot as I am not a cham expert.

In addition to crickets, I read that I can also feed dubia (would be awesome to have a bigger reptile to munch on any dubia that get too big for my cresteds) and superworms, hornworms etc less frequently as a treat.

I've been reading some care sheets and I luckily already have all the insect dusting necessities-- plain and D3 calcium, gut load (Repashy Bug Burger and Forest Junky, I add veggies as well) I sent the owner some questions to ask more about current diet and where she was purchased from, and am waiting to hear back from them. I am not sure if the female has a lay box or not.

I've read up on heat, humidity and misting, though I don't think people want me to recite every single thing on the care sheets. I know to provide a thermal gradient and min temps are 75F.

I understand and don't mind at all that these guys are mostly for looking at and not touching, though it would be a plus if she is reasonably friendly, makes handling when I have to easier! I figure that if things work out, I'd plan to go over, meet the chameleon and take notes/watch how it's owner interacts with it to get an idea of how to make sure I understand what's involved.

Anyways, apologies for the long post, but I hope that by providing lots of details I will get good answers! Any thoughts or tips would be appreciated.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. She's a pretty little lady. All of my females have been friendly. It's really nice to see people on here doing their research before they get their chameleon. I'm linking you some blogs on general care, female care and egg laying and the laying bin. Females can and often do lay eggs without a male even being around.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...ng-veiled-panther-chameleons.html#comment1721
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.htmlm
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html#comment2073
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

 

[OctopusMafia]

Thank you for the much appreciated reply and greeting I wouldn't feel right telling the current owner I'd take her in without first understanding what I was agreeing to. I also appreciate the links to the female specific care; I had read that I would need a lay box for her but I had yet to see an article specifically about this.

I was pleasantly surprised when I saw her photo; I saw a bunch of brown-pink females when I was first researching these guys and this girl is lovely in contrast. I can see her ribs a little, but I plan on giving her a more varied diet once I take her in (she just gets crickets, I think, and I really hope they were gutloading them though she doesn't show any signs of MBD that I can see.)

From what I've been told, she's very friendly, though I plan on working with her slowly and earning her trust (not big on hold bugs, but if it'll help her to get used to me, I'll make the sacrifice heh.) I don't expect to hold her much, if at all, and it seems there are mixed opinions on handling. I guess I could break out some ovenmits or gloves if I needed to handle her (I was a bit surprised to read that they can bite but it doesn't scare me off, of course,) but I'd hate putting her through the stress.

I was hoping you might be able to answer for me another question, if you don't mind? I was originally thinking of putting her in a quite room by herself for a few months before moving her to my reptile room, but I now worry that this might be too much stress for her. So my question is, would it be better just to set her up in the corner of the room where I plan to permanently keep her instead of in another room for quarantine?

I've also found out a little more about this female since posting this topic; from what I know, she's already survived more than her fair share of stress, poor thing. She was purchased from a local PetCo, but is captive bred; she lost her eye due to the owner's kid poking it and this kid is also apparently very loud and noisy, but I hope this means she won't be as likely to keel over when I transport her as she's probably used to lots of noise and craziness.

She has been to a good herp vet when she had her eye injured, but I am not sure if they've ever done a fecal test on her (she's probably due for one either way.) I will at the very least have this done for her ASAP; I might even be able to get a sample to test when I go over to meet her next week.

Anyways, thanks again for the reply!

 

[Lpsouth1978]

I would recommend keeping her separate from your other reptiles for a period. While moving her from one room to another can be stressful, it is a short journey and you shouldn't have to change up her cage to make the move. It is also good because you will be able to monitor her closely without the risk introducing any possible illness to your other reptiles.

Also, noise generally doesn't bother chameleons. They don't really hear so much as feel vibration, especially in the lower frequencies (like the bass while watching a movie). They are much more visual animals, so you could be right next to her cage talking to someone and it would not bother the chameleon, so long as she can't see you.

Where are you located? It can be difficult to find a good vet with chameleon experience. If we know where you are located, we may be able to point you toward a GREAT vet.

 

[OctopusMafia]

Thanks for the helpful info; I was not keen on putting her in my reptile room right off the bat. I appreciate that I am not being smacked upside the head with my admitted lack of knowledge; I obviously still have a lot of research to do on chameleon care. I am trying to learn as much as I can before she comes to live with me, as I want to make sure that she doesn't suffer from a lack of knowledge on my part. I've been reading a lot of things about female care today and also learned that identifying her locale is easier said than done, so I'm at least making progress there!

I am in the Fort Collins, CO area; she's been taken to CSU vet hospital for the eye injury in the past. I spoke with a local reptile rescue and they recommended Dr. Johnson, I believe. If you have a better vet that you'd recommend, please let me know as I have no desire to create a new set of problems by choosing the wrong vet for her. I will try to get more info about her medical history when I go visit her. I hope that she's had more than one visit to the vet, but I think I will just assume at this point that she'll at the very least need a fecal test, due for a yearly vet checkup and maybe some meds if her fecal comes back positive (but hopefully not).

As I mentioned I'm going over to meet her soon to get an idea of how they are currently keeping her (I want to see her cage size and check on her one damaged eye to know what I am getting into here.) I plan on taking notes and pictures so that I can replicate, or improve on if need be but I hope not!, her current conditions. From the picture, she looks to be in pretty decent shape and they are keeping her with live plants, so I am hoping that she just needs some more variety to her diet and a vet checkup.

I am looking in to starting a dubia colony (it'll take some time to get going but better late than never!) as I'd like to start introducing her to feeders other than just crickets. I've been wanting to do this for all my collection anyways, I am cautious of where I purchase my feeders from and I don't want to breed crickets (doesn't seem like a fun or nice smelling feeder to breed anyways.)

Which brings me to another quick question; I know some reputable sites for dubia but does anyone have a favorite cricket supplier they'd recommend? I am not big on purchasing feeders from the local stores.

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!

How kind of you to take on the care of your ill acquaintance's cham.
It is always nice to hear from people who are looking to gain as much knowledge as possible before getting the cham.

In addition to the wonderful links provided by Jannb, here is one to the forum resources section, where there is info on every aspect of chamkeeping, as well as species-specific caresheets such as this one about Panther chams https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

There's also a page there about health https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/ and https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/vet/ has 2 links to help locate cham vets.

As for crickets, I've used Armstrong's Cricket Farm for years https://www.armstrongcrickets.com/
I like to order some other feeders from Mulberry farms http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
Phoenixworms come from here for my chams http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/StoreFront
When it comes to treating my chams to Blue Bottle Flies, I order in bulk from http://www.forkedtreeranch.com/blueBottleFly.html
Much smaller quantities of BB Flies, plus various other feeders are available from Rebecca at http://www.mantisplace.com/

 

[OctopusMafia]

Sorry, this got posted twice! Apologies!

 

[OctopusMafia]

Welcome to the forum!

How kind of you to take on the care of your ill acquaintance's cham.
It is always nice to hear from people who are looking to gain as much knowledge as possible before getting the cham.

In addition to the wonderful links provided by Jannb, here is one to the forum resources section, where there is info on every aspect of chamkeeping, as well as species-specific caresheets such as this one about Panther chams https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

There's also a page there about health https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/ and https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/vet/ has 2 links to help locate cham vets.

As for crickets, I've used Armstrong's Cricket Farm for years https://www.armstrongcrickets.com/
I like to order some other feeders from Mulberry farms http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
Phoenixworms come from here for my chams http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/StoreFront
When it comes to treating my chams to Blue Bottle Flies, I order in bulk from http://www.forkedtreeranch.com/blueBottleFly.html
Much smaller quantities of BB Flies, plus various other feeders are available from Rebecca at http://www.mantisplace.com/

Thank you for the warm welcome Lovereps; I am just trying to help someone in need and as an animal lover myself, I always worry about what would happen to my crew of other reptile species if something where to happen to me. This being said, I wouldn't agree to take her on if I didn't feel confident that, with all the great info out there and this great forum with its helpful members, I could successfully care for her.

I hope to set her up with some timers and maybe one of those automatic thermo/hygro controllers to make everything as simple as possible. I've also been wanting to get a temp gun, and this gives me the perfect excuse to go ahead and grab one.

I am definitely bookmarking those sites and info; it is greatly appreciated. I am looking forward to introducing her to other supplemental insects, particularly silkworms which I've been reading up on, when I can. I'm learning as much as possible so that this girl can not just live but hopefully thrive.

 

[jannb]

Poor girl. I am glad that you are taking her in and planning to give her a good life. I also buy crickets from Armstrong. As far as keeping her in your reptile room when you do move her there you will want to make sure she can not see your other animals so she want be stressed.

 

[OctopusMafia]

Poor girl. I am glad that you are taking her in and planning to give her a good life. I also buy crickets from Armstrong. As far as keeping her in your reptile room when you do move her there you will want to make sure she can not see your other animals so she want be stressed.

She's had a rather rough start to life, between the pet store and the sight loss. I have been reading up on all the health issues that I can so that when I go and meet her, I might have an idea at least of how well she's doing. I am hoping they have a lay box for her and I specifically want to ask whether she's laid any dud eggs. I will probably take a list of questions with me, just so I can get a feeling for how she's been doing. Though, even if she looks to be fine, I know better than to just assume I don't still need to get, at the very least, the fecal done.

I should have no problem blocking her view of the rest of the critters, as she'd be in the opposite corner from the others and I can also put up a visual barrier on the side of the tank she'd be able to see them from. She'd be able to see out of her cage front and the right side, just not the left side, if that makes sense.

I have another room she can stay in at least while being quarantined, but once the colder months hit, the reptile room will be the warmest. Though, I can also fiddle with heating bulbs to compensate during the winter, so I have options and a little time with where to place her.

I'm glad that I was able to find this forum; these are great answers to questions I didn't even know I had yet

I have been reading about how to work with her once she's settling in, building trust with her. I think I am going to have to be mindful to try to approach her from her good side. I would like to try hand feeding her when it's time, but I honestly don't know how well it's going to go if she only has one eye; she'll have to decide whether to look at me or the bug.

From what I was told about her, she's very friendly and curious with her current owners and while I don't expect her to enjoy my presence right off the bat, it's good to know she's not a grumpy girl

 

[Leslie11]

locale

I am making a guess on her locale. I have 4 Nosy Be's, and she looks like one of my females. She has the exact coloring. She is beautiful. Does she have a name? I think it is very kind of you for taking her in, and it really does help that you have some other reptile experience. Keep up the research, as it only can help. Good luck, and prayers for your sick friend. Please keep us posted.

 

[jannb]

I had a male panther that had to have one of his eyes removed after an eye injury when he was 4 months old. He live to be almost 5 and we would always hand feed him. When he'd try to shoot for his food his tongue would go way to the left side of the feeder. We probably could have trained him to cup feed but always enjoyed interacting with him while hand feeding. He was perfect in every other way until he became a senior citizen with some health issues. He always free ranged and moved all over his large free range area.

 

[OctopusMafia]

I am making a guess on her locale. I have 4 Nosy Be's, and she looks like one of my females. She has the exact coloring. She is beautiful. Does she have a name? I think it is very kind of you for taking her in, and it really does help that you have some other reptile experience. Keep up the research, as it only can help. Good luck, and prayers for your sick friend. Please keep us posted.

Nosy Be's are gorgeous!!!!; thank you for the information Her name is Munchkin because she likes to eat a lot (I'll just call her Munch.) I am really looking forward to meeting her, and seeing those colors in person.

A lot of my reptiles are rescues anyways, which is why this person asked me to consider taking her in. All my reptiles are rainforest dwelling, so I am a pro at misting now (heh!) but they have very simple care requirements to thrive. However, I don't think that this will be much more complicated, as long as I do my research, have things on timers and get a schedule going with her.

Maybe those are famous last words, but Panthers seem like the perfect intro cham to me!

 

[OctopusMafia]

I had a male panther that had to have one of his eyes removed after an eye injury when he was 4 months old. He live to be almost 5 and we would always hand feed him. When he'd try to shoot for his food his tongue would go way to the left side of the feeder. We probably could have trained him to cup feed but always enjoyed interacting with him while hand feeding. He was perfect in every other way until he became a senior citizen with some health issues. He always free ranged and moved all over his large free range area.

I do plan on training her to cup feed, especially with dubia; I thought that the cup was a cool thing to do for them. I'm a little grossed out at holding things like roaches (I am a wuss and will have to work on this,) but maybe I could get away with using blunt plastic tweezers? Though I don't know that there would be much point if I don't hold them.

I am interested in building a free range set up for her at some point, or at least a 'play area' for her. I've seen some amazing set up photos out there and would love to do this for her

 

[Leslie11]

Guess

Remember, I said she looks like a Nosy Be, not for sure. She will stay pretty much the same color unless she is gravid. Only the males turn blue. I have dubias, too. I just shake them into a plastic ziplock that has a little calcium in it, and use a spoon to dole them out to each cham. I don't mind holding them, now, though.

 

[OctopusMafia]

Remember, I said she looks like a Nosy Be, not for sure. She will stay pretty much the same color unless she is gravid. Only the males turn blue. I have dubias, too. I just shake them into a plastic ziplock that has a little calcium in it, and use a spoon to dole them out to each cham. I don't mind holding them, now, though.

I understand ; this was one of the first things I read mentioned on female cham care that you can't be 100% sure with the females (at least the pet store ones.) It won't matter one way or the other, she's not ever going to be bred but just a pampered pet.

I feed dusted/gutloaded dubia to my other critters, and started using the spice jar DIY method. Maybe you've seen/heard of this, I really like it... Use a well cleaned large spice container to dust them with. After you have them lightly coated, you can just open the perforated end and save the stuff/pitch it/whatever you want to do with the leftover calcium or vitamins.

I've been using tongs to grab and sort bugs so far; when I don't mind holding them, does this mean I've graduated from beginner to a true reptile keeper? Anyways, thank you for all the help!!!