Supplementing Controversy

[pigglett79]

Hello everyone. I am pulling my hair out researching proper supplementing and I have changed by schedule and gutloading twice after reading old threads and blogs. I would love to hear from members who have kept chameleons for several years and who have experience with successful schedules.

I have an adult Jacksons male and an almost 6 month old panther below is my new schedule. I do gutload all of the feeders well with dandelion greens, steamed butternit squash, oranges, carrots and I alternate between dinofeul and repashy super load for dusting the veggies. I mainly feed them dubias, hornworms and silkworms.

Both - Every other Sunday Repashy calcium plus
Both - Every opposite sunday Zoo med repti cal with D3
Panther - sticky tongues outdoor every feeding on the roaches
Jacksons - sticky tongues outdoor on roaches 2x per week.

I see that the sticky tongues advises to reduce dusting to every other feeding for half grown to sub-adult. Is a 6 month old panther considered half grown yet?

Is my supplementing schedule apprproate for both the panther and the Jacksons?

I started doing even more research on supplements because my Jacksons was having issues with shooting his tongue. He seems to be improving, but the more I research supplementing the more confused I get. Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[pigglett79]

Bump for evening

 

[sandrachameleon]

I am a successfull panther keeper. I have never had a jack though I've read a lot because I've many times considered having one.

IMHO what you have outlined above is fine.
I am assuming these animals dont spend time outside.

If you want to reduce a little the vitamin free calcium for the panther (which you dont need to necessarily do, if you are only LIGHTLY dusting and only when you offer roach), I'd wait until closer to a full year old.

I know you mainly feed those three things, but do you occassionally offer other feeder prey?

 

[pigglett79]

I am a successfull panther keeper. I have never had a jack though I've read a lot because I've many times considered having one.

IMHO what you have outlined above is fine.
I am assuming these animals dont spend time outside.

If you want to reduce a little the vitamin free calcium for the panther (which you dont need to necessarily do, if you are only LIGHTLY dusting and only when you offer roach), I'd wait until closer to a full year old.

I know you mainly feed those three things, but do you occassionally offer other feeder prey?

Thank you for helping, I feel like I am going crazy trying to make sure I am doing the right thing. They go outside about an hour a week. I do offer other prey occasionally, recently I have been feeding mantids and prior to that i had phoenix worms. I do want to look in to snails next.

 

[sandrachameleon]

If your head is spinning a bit, your probably doing it right LOL

ya Supplementing feels complicated, because of all the variables.
an hour a week outside isnt much of a factor in terms of supplementing, IMHO

I personally think that the wider the variety of prey (all well gutloaded) the less one has to worry about supplements.

I found my panthers enjoyed snails, and from what I'm told Jacksons do too. another one to consider is terretrial isopods. neither of these need to be supplement dusted, and are a much enjoyed addition to their diets. Never known a chameleon that dislikes TI.

 

[pigglett79]

If your head is spinning a bit, your probably doing it right LOL

ya Supplementing feels complicated, because of all the variables.
an hour a week outside isnt much of a factor in terms of supplementing, IMHO

I personally think that the wider the variety of prey (all well gutloaded) the less one has to worry about supplements.

I found my panthers enjoyed snails, and from what I'm told Jacksons do too. another one to consider is terretrial isopods. neither of these need to be supplement dusted, and are a much enjoyed addition to their diets. Never known a chameleon that dislikes TI.

Where do you get the isopods? Do you collect them from outside and breed them? It seems like the ones I see in our soil are pretty small.

 

[Lovereps]

Just so you know, Sandrachameleon is dead on with Jackson's loving land snails.
You would need to breed your own though to ensure that they are free of parasites.
Once you see how a Jackson's reacts to a snail though, you will want to include them in the diet.
The snail shells are calcium rich, from what I've been told.
Sorry but I don't know of a good source other than starting a colony from outdoor wild caught snails.

 

[pigglett79]

Just so you know, Sandrachameleon is dead on with Jackson's loving land snails.
You would need to breed your own though to ensure that they are free of parasites.
Once you see how a Jackson's reacts to a snail though, you will want to include them in the diet.
The snail shells are calcium rich, from what I've been told.
Sorry but I don't know of a good source other than starting a colony from outdoor wild caught snails.

Well, I might just need to get some. I hear they take ages to reproduce and grow. About how long does it take for snails to grow to feeding size? Also when you breed them do you wait for the adults to lay eggs then seperate them so that you keep track of other captives vs wilds? I haven't seen any snails in my area, but would love to get a new feeder going.

 

[deadhd5]

I would love to find a source for land snails for my Jackson cham Reggie.

I noticed on my last trip to a local pet store there were a lot of aquatic snails in their tanks, and they told me I could have as many as I wanted for free. Would these work? Any idea if parasites would be a risk?

 

[Lovereps]

Sorry but I have to admit that I've not yet cultured my own snails.
It's on my "to do" list.
A friend had given me a few home cultured snails quite some time ago for my chams and each of my Jackson's went wild for them.
Unforutunately, I wasn't interested in raising my own at the time and have since lost touch with him.

Maybe they don't grow as quickly as other feeders but you're not going to grow the ones you feed to full adult size anyway.
IIRC, the aquatic snails are loaded with parasites more so than land snails.
I believe that the difficulty in ordering land snails is that they're a pest and can't be shipped across state lines without a permit.
Pigglett79, you are in luck as far as land snails go...
Since you're in California you can order them from here:
http://www.nilesbio.com/subcat340.html

Sandrachameleon, as is often the case, posted a nice blog about snail culturing:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/133-snails.html
Here's an informative past thread and I'm sure there are more on the forum:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/breeding-raising-feeding-off-wild-snails-81119/