Sudden health issues

[frankiecham]

So, today I was doing some cleaning in the bathroom. I refilled my Frankie's mister and turned it on. He was perfectly fine when I did that. The tube fell out and I put it back in. He was sitting on a stick enjoying the warm water. I went back in my room about 5 minutes later and he was yellow and black, upside-down hanging off the top of his cage. I open his cage and tried to catch him because he was slowly falling. He was ice cold even though the water was warm and he was in his basking area. He was completely lethargic, eyes sunken in, saliva coming out of his mouth, and his skin was dark. I was able to pick him up (which he never allows me to go near him) because he was literally just laying there with his limbs up in the air. He started getting his green back but his breathing was slow and would randomly yawn. At least, that what it looked like. My hands were pretty warm so it seemed like he enjoyed it. I rubbed parts where he wasn't shedding just to get him to react a little. Which he didn't much. It took a good half hour before he started gripping my fingers, but his face was dark and his eyes wouldn't open. It was a full 45 minute before I could place him in his cage because he was showing signs of strength. I kept an eye on him for a little while after that. Before his lights turned off, his eyes did start coming back out but he couldn't open them as much as usual. His color was a little pale, but he appeared to be a little better. Has anyone experienced this before? It was so sudden and there was no reason to be stressed. Uvb and basking lights were replaced not even a month ago. Eats normally. Nothing changed for this to happen. There's no reptile vet anywhere near me and I am stumped. He's a year and a half and he is my baby. My heart won't handle it if he passes and research is a dead end.

 

[jannb]

Please fill out this form and give as much detail as you can so that the members here can better help you.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[MissSkittles]

@jannb OP did provide some husbandry info back in June that obviously fell thru the cracks. I do see some issues & will add a fresh post.

 

[MissSkittles]

Providing your husbandry is the same as back in June, there are some problems that could have caused your guy’s episode and need to be changed asap.

I cant remember the species. He is a male. Almost 3 months old. I've had him for a month. He’s a Yemen chameleon, commonly called a veiled.

I dont handle him at all. He's a crabby butt. Most are and we just love them more for it. It is good to work on building trust with him though. This is a great blog on that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

He eats about 5 crickets and 2 super worms a day. He will get a horn worm 1 to 2 times a week, but he doesn't like them much. I would say to use the superworms only for occasional treats as they are fatty. Adding some more variety of feeders is best. By the time he’s around 10-12 months old, you’ll be wanting to reduce his feeding to just 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. Our veiled friends are prone to getting obese, which is very bad for them. Gutloaded with a bunch of high vitamin veggies and fruits. Very good He doesn't have a time when he eats. He actually will sit on his feeder until I feed him. It is better to feed in the morning, so that they have time to bask and digest.

Reptivitamin with d3, 2 times a week and only on his crickets. This is a serious error. He is getting overdosed with vitamins A and D3, both which are fat soluble and can build to toxic levels. There is no way to remove the excess from his system other than time and good hydration. You need to stop the ReptiVite with D3 for at least a month to 6 weeks to let his body process and eliminate the excess vitamins. Reptivite with D3 is to be given just one feeding every other week, or twice a month. Plain phosphorus free calcium without D3 is to be used at every feeding, dusted lightly. Calcium on all his good when reptivitamin isn't used.

His little dripper is in his favorite sitting area. Misted 3 times a day for a minute and a half. Fogger goes for 4 hours before he wakes up. Ok. I would increase his misting to at least 2 minutes, but otherwise this is all fine. Do make sure his enclosure is able to dry out during the day. Usually drippers are used for just about 15-29 minutes daily.

Urate and feces are perfect. Moist, normal brown with white urate. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal done to make sure he has no parasites.

Cage is a glass and screen. I hate it and waiting until he's a little bigger before getting an all screen. 36 inches tall and 18×18. Has he gotten an upgrade yet? The minimum size for an adult is 2x2x4’, but I say go bigger if you can. Screen ReptiBreezes are pretty easy to join two together side by side and those who are handy, can custom make their own enclosures.

I just got him a t5 HO 24W uvb 10.0. He loved it automatically. 9am turn on and 9pm turnoff The 10.0 is too strong. To compensate, your basking area should be a distance of about 10-11” below the light. It might be easiest to elevate the light rather than move basking area. I use wire baskets from the dollar store to raise my lights. If you want something prettier, look for ReptiRisers on Etsy. When it’s time to replace it, opt for the ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% instead and then adjust the distance between the light and basking area to 8-9”.

Heat is usually 85 to 90 throughout the basking area. 85 is perfect. 90 is too warm. Night temp is 65 to 70. Living in Wisconsin doesn't help with a set temp. You may want to invest in a Herpstat to maintain a constant temp. https://spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=25 Temp reader is a couple inches away from basking area. I'll put it by the basking area 2 to 3 times a day to get an accurate read.

During the day, humidity is 30 to 40. Night is above 75 since that is the recommended number. Both are good.

Hes got a small devils ivy. He goes in it to cool off. His bigger plant at the bottom, I don't remember but I do know it's safe for him. He has 2 fake plants on the side so it gives him coverage from us. If the fake plants are inside, move them to the outside of the enclosure and add more safe live plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Make sure he’s got lots of leafy cover and lots of branches and vines to travel on. Put a pothos on the floor of the enclosure and train it to grow upwards for larger leaves. The problem with fake plants is that our veiled friends like to nibble their plants and it only takes one time to cause a potentially fatal bowel obstruction.

He is in my room on my dresser. About 5 feet away from the ground. Perfect. Height = safety. I am the only one that cares for him. My husband will look at him daily but nothing more. My kids will occasionally look at him but not often. Especially when I'm cleaning up any water, dead bugs, and his poop. Also perfect.

We have an ac in the window and a fan(pointed away from him). I have a heat pad on the bottom of his cage. Not sure I understand what the heat pad does, since he’s not going to be sitting on it. He will be just fine though with night time temp drops. While we don’t want them to get quite so cold, veileds have survived temps in the 50’s. If it gets too cold, I'll turn it on, but it hasn't gone lower than 65.

I live in Wisconsin. I am a stay at home mom so keeping an eye on him and his cage is simple. Our last chameleon died before we got him. We are guessing some kind of inbred situation because he didn't look like normal veiled chameleons. Might have had metabolic bone disease, which can be terribly disfiguring. Now I'm cautious and I make sure his area is clean and good for him.

You never want to use warm water for him. What might seem lukewarm to us, can be scalding for him. I can’t say one way or the other if this is what triggered his episode. I can say that the overdoses of vitamins is the biggest problem and suspect. I would like to see some more pics of him..,his whole body. Also his enclosure would be good to see.
It can be a real challenge to find the correct and current husbandry info out there and many fall victim to the bad info. The best sources (besides us here) are https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ and Neptune the chameleon on YouTube.

 

[frankiecham]

Please fill out this form and give as much detail as you can so that the members here can better help you.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? He is a veiled chameleon, male, and I've had him for a year and 5 months.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? He never gets handled.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? He eats superworms, meal worms, roaches, and horn worms. He doesn't like anything else. Superworms are his favorite. It's what he mostly eats. He will eat roaches, but he can be a pain when it comes to the crunch insects. Gut loaded with green, red, and orange peppers, carrots, sweet potatoes, and kale. He eats once a day at 530 when I get home.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? He gets misted 3 times a day. Goes for 6 minutes. He drinks from it at the later one. He runs from it during the day.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? 1 dropping a day or every other. Always good color and never dry or runny.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. He just has left eye issues. It never appears as healthy as the right. No drainage or any issues with visual impairment.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? It is a bird cage with screen attached on the inside since he does enjoy scaling the entire enclosure. 2ft wide, 3 ft long, 5 ft tall.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptizoo t50. Lights on at 8am and off at 8pm, as long as he's in an appropriate spot to sleep.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking is between 90 to 100. Floor gets to 70, give it take. Night is never under 74. 2 thermometers in his cage.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity during the day is around 60. Night time is higher due to fogger.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Live plants because he likes to eat them. All safe from a chameleon lady i follow. Mostly devils ivy for coverage and drinking.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? He is in my room. Fan is in here but not by his cage or facing it. Little to no traffic thought the day. The cage and stand is around 6 feet tall. 3 feet from ceiling.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? I am in Wisconsin.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. Sudden random lethargic behavior after misted. He turned yellow and black out of no where and went limp. It was super random. He's never done that before. He has been his usual self. No signs of distress or infections. Eats normally. Drinks normally. His body temperature got really cold too. As if it just dropped out of no where. My heat is at 75. My room is always on the hotter side because I have 2 other reptiles and all 3 heat lamps keep my room decently warm. Warm enough that he shouldn't have been as cold as he was.

 

[frankiecham]

Providing your husbandry is the same as back in June, there are some problems that could have caused your guy’s episode and need to be changed asap.

I cant remember the species. He is a male. Almost 3 months old. I've had him for a month. He’s a Yemen chameleon, commonly called a veiled.

I dont handle him at all. He's a crabby butt. Most are and we just love them more for it. It is good to work on building trust with him though. This is a great blog on that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

He eats about 5 crickets and 2 super worms a day. He will get a horn worm 1 to 2 times a week, but he doesn't like them much. I would say to use the superworms only for occasional treats as they are fatty. Adding some more variety of feeders is best. By the time he’s around 10-12 months old, you’ll be wanting to reduce his feeding to just 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. Our veiled friends are prone to getting obese, which is very bad for them. Gutloaded with a bunch of high vitamin veggies and fruits. Very good He doesn't have a time when he eats. He actually will sit on his feeder until I feed him. It is better to feed in the morning, so that they have time to bask and digest.

Reptivitamin with d3, 2 times a week and only on his crickets. This is a serious error. He is getting overdosed with vitamins A and D3, both which are fat soluble and can build to toxic levels. There is no way to remove the excess from his system other than time and good hydration. You need to stop the ReptiVite with D3 for at least a month to 6 weeks to let his body process and eliminate the excess vitamins. Reptivite with D3 is to be given just one feeding every other week, or twice a month. Plain phosphorus free calcium without D3 is to be used at every feeding, dusted lightly. Calcium on all his good when reptivitamin isn't used.

His little dripper is in his favorite sitting area. Misted 3 times a day for a minute and a half. Fogger goes for 4 hours before he wakes up. Ok. I would increase his misting to at least 2 minutes, but otherwise this is all fine. Do make sure his enclosure is able to dry out during the day. Usually drippers are used for just about 15-29 minutes daily.

Urate and feces are perfect. Moist, normal brown with white urate. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal done to make sure he has no parasites.

Cage is a glass and screen. I hate it and waiting until he's a little bigger before getting an all screen. 36 inches tall and 18×18. Has he gotten an upgrade yet? The minimum size for an adult is 2x2x4’, but I say go bigger if you can. Screen ReptiBreezes are pretty easy to join two together side by side and those who are handy, can custom make their own enclosures.

I just got him a t5 HO 24W uvb 10.0. He loved it automatically. 9am turn on and 9pm turnoff The 10.0 is too strong. To compensate, your basking area should be a distance of about 10-11” below the light. It might be easiest to elevate the light rather than move basking area. I use wire baskets from the dollar store to raise my lights. If you want something prettier, look for ReptiRisers on Etsy. When it’s time to replace it, opt for the ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% instead and then adjust the distance between the light and basking area to 8-9”.

Heat is usually 85 to 90 throughout the basking area. 85 is perfect. 90 is too warm. Night temp is 65 to 70. Living in Wisconsin doesn't help with a set temp. You may want to invest in a Herpstat to maintain a constant temp. https://spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=25 Temp reader is a couple inches away from basking area. I'll put it by the basking area 2 to 3 times a day to get an accurate read.

During the day, humidity is 30 to 40. Night is above 75 since that is the recommended number. Both are good.

Hes got a small devils ivy. He goes in it to cool off. His bigger plant at the bottom, I don't remember but I do know it's safe for him. He has 2 fake plants on the side so it gives him coverage from us. If the fake plants are inside, move them to the outside of the enclosure and add more safe live plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Make sure he’s got lots of leafy cover and lots of branches and vines to travel on. Put a pothos on the floor of the enclosure and train it to grow upwards for larger leaves. The problem with fake plants is that our veiled friends like to nibble their plants and it only takes one time to cause a potentially fatal bowel obstruction.

He is in my room on my dresser. About 5 feet away from the ground. Perfect. Height = safety. I am the only one that cares for him. My husband will look at him daily but nothing more. My kids will occasionally look at him but not often. Especially when I'm cleaning up any water, dead bugs, and his poop. Also perfect.

We have an ac in the window and a fan(pointed away from him). I have a heat pad on the bottom of his cage. Not sure I understand what the heat pad does, since he’s not going to be sitting on it. He will be just fine though with night time temp drops. While we don’t want them to get quite so cold, veileds have survived temps in the 50’s. If it gets too cold, I'll turn it on, but it hasn't gone lower than 65.

I live in Wisconsin. I am a stay at home mom so keeping an eye on him and his cage is simple. Our last chameleon died before we got him. We are guessing some kind of inbred situation because he didn't look like normal veiled chameleons. Might have had metabolic bone disease, which can be terribly disfiguring. Now I'm cautious and I make sure his area is clean and good for him.

You never want to use warm water for him. What might seem lukewarm to us, can be scalding for him. I can’t say one way or the other if this is what triggered his episode. I can say that the overdoses of vitamins is the biggest problem and suspect. I would like to see some more pics of him..,his whole body. Also his enclosure would be good to see.
It can be a real challenge to find the correct and current husbandry info out there and many fall victim to the bad info. The best sources (besides us here) are https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ and Neptune the chameleon on YouTube.
View attachment 360164View attachment 360165

He definitely got a bigger cage. The hybrid cage would never dry out. I got him a screen cage, but it slowly started falling apart. I got a bird cage and lined the inside with screen. He's been in it for at least 6 months. He's got all real plants now. There is a person here where I live that recommended d3 2 times a week because where we live. He doesn't get it as much as the person recommended. He doesn't have the dripper anymore. It made him angry. He and I do have a trust bond, but I keep my distance. I only put my hand in his cage so I can put his food dish on a branch. He is very routines and I do my best to keep it that way. The behavior was so random. One minute he's drinking off a leaf, and the next, he's hanging upside-down on the top of his cage and going lethargic. Once he came aware of his surroundings, he was trying to get away from me slowly. I had to help get his feet on a stick because he was too focused on me being by his home. He's a healthy weight and as active as any other chameleon. Since there's no vet that takes reptile around me, I have to resort for this forum to help. I'll be shattered if he passed away.

 

[frankiecham]

Providing your husbandry is the same as back in June, there are some problems that could have caused your guy’s episode and need to be changed asap.

I cant remember the species. He is a male. Almost 3 months old. I've had him for a month. He’s a Yemen chameleon, commonly called a veiled.

I dont handle him at all. He's a crabby butt. Most are and we just love them more for it. It is good to work on building trust with him though. This is a great blog on that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

He eats about 5 crickets and 2 super worms a day. He will get a horn worm 1 to 2 times a week, but he doesn't like them much. I would say to use the superworms only for occasional treats as they are fatty. Adding some more variety of feeders is best. By the time he’s around 10-12 months old, you’ll be wanting to reduce his feeding to just 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. Our veiled friends are prone to getting obese, which is very bad for them. Gutloaded with a bunch of high vitamin veggies and fruits. Very good He doesn't have a time when he eats. He actually will sit on his feeder until I feed him. It is better to feed in the morning, so that they have time to bask and digest.

Reptivitamin with d3, 2 times a week and only on his crickets. This is a serious error. He is getting overdosed with vitamins A and D3, both which are fat soluble and can build to toxic levels. There is no way to remove the excess from his system other than time and good hydration. You need to stop the ReptiVite with D3 for at least a month to 6 weeks to let his body process and eliminate the excess vitamins. Reptivite with D3 is to be given just one feeding every other week, or twice a month. Plain phosphorus free calcium without D3 is to be used at every feeding, dusted lightly. Calcium on all his good when reptivitamin isn't used.

His little dripper is in his favorite sitting area. Misted 3 times a day for a minute and a half. Fogger goes for 4 hours before he wakes up. Ok. I would increase his misting to at least 2 minutes, but otherwise this is all fine. Do make sure his enclosure is able to dry out during the day. Usually drippers are used for just about 15-29 minutes daily.

Urate and feces are perfect. Moist, normal brown with white urate. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal done to make sure he has no parasites.

Cage is a glass and screen. I hate it and waiting until he's a little bigger before getting an all screen. 36 inches tall and 18×18. Has he gotten an upgrade yet? The minimum size for an adult is 2x2x4’, but I say go bigger if you can. Screen ReptiBreezes are pretty easy to join two together side by side and those who are handy, can custom make their own enclosures.

I just got him a t5 HO 24W uvb 10.0. He loved it automatically. 9am turn on and 9pm turnoff The 10.0 is too strong. To compensate, your basking area should be a distance of about 10-11” below the light. It might be easiest to elevate the light rather than move basking area. I use wire baskets from the dollar store to raise my lights. If you want something prettier, look for ReptiRisers on Etsy. When it’s time to replace it, opt for the ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% instead and then adjust the distance between the light and basking area to 8-9”.

Heat is usually 85 to 90 throughout the basking area. 85 is perfect. 90 is too warm. Night temp is 65 to 70. Living in Wisconsin doesn't help with a set temp. You may want to invest in a Herpstat to maintain a constant temp. https://spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=25 Temp reader is a couple inches away from basking area. I'll put it by the basking area 2 to 3 times a day to get an accurate read.

During the day, humidity is 30 to 40. Night is above 75 since that is the recommended number. Both are good.

Hes got a small devils ivy. He goes in it to cool off. His bigger plant at the bottom, I don't remember but I do know it's safe for him. He has 2 fake plants on the side so it gives him coverage from us. If the fake plants are inside, move them to the outside of the enclosure and add more safe live plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Make sure he’s got lots of leafy cover and lots of branches and vines to travel on. Put a pothos on the floor of the enclosure and train it to grow upwards for larger leaves. The problem with fake plants is that our veiled friends like to nibble their plants and it only takes one time to cause a potentially fatal bowel obstruction.

He is in my room on my dresser. About 5 feet away from the ground. Perfect. Height = safety. I am the only one that cares for him. My husband will look at him daily but nothing more. My kids will occasionally look at him but not often. Especially when I'm cleaning up any water, dead bugs, and his poop. Also perfect.

We have an ac in the window and a fan(pointed away from him). I have a heat pad on the bottom of his cage. Not sure I understand what the heat pad does, since he’s not going to be sitting on it. He will be just fine though with night time temp drops. While we don’t want them to get quite so cold, veileds have survived temps in the 50’s. If it gets too cold, I'll turn it on, but it hasn't gone lower than 65.

I live in Wisconsin. I am a stay at home mom so keeping an eye on him and his cage is simple. Our last chameleon died before we got him. We are guessing some kind of inbred situation because he didn't look like normal veiled chameleons. Might have had metabolic bone disease, which can be terribly disfiguring. Now I'm cautious and I make sure his area is clean and good for him.

You never want to use warm water for him. What might seem lukewarm to us, can be scalding for him. I can’t say one way or the other if this is what triggered his episode. I can say that the overdoses of vitamins is the biggest problem and suspect. I would like to see some more pics of him..,his whole body. Also his enclosure would be good to see.
It can be a real challenge to find the correct and current husbandry info out there and many fall victim to the bad info. The best sources (besides us here) are https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ and Neptune the chameleon on YouTube.
View attachment 360164View attachment 360165

Also, the bugs aren't bought. My mom breeds them since she has reptiles.

 

[ERKleRose]

The tube fell out and I put it back in.

Did the tube fall where you’ve cleaned with chemicals or anything like that that could’ve been exposed to him once you put it back in the water?

There is a person here where I live that recommended d3 2 times a week because where we live. He doesn't get it as much as the person recommended.

Sadly this info that was given to you is incorrect and frankly doesn’t make sense, as natural sunlight gives natural D3, so there’s no need for a D3 supplement if kept outside, and if the UVI level coming off of a uvb bulb is high enough (it can be too high as well), no supplemental D3 is needed, as the cham is getting enough natural D3 through the uvb bulb.

 

[kinyonga]

Can you be more specific about where you are in Wisconsin?

 

[jannb]

Vets that see reptiles in your state.

Wisconsin​

La Crosse — Thompson Veterinary Clinic (Dr. Weigel & Dr. Kurth)

MacFarland — Spartan Animal Hospital

Madison — UW Veterinary Care

Menomonee Falls — Brook-Falls Veterinary Hospital & Exotic Care