Success rate for first veiled clutch?

[Asiabree1]

My female veiled laid 41 eggs, 34 hatched, but now the babies are dying. I've read lots of stuff on here and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Is it common for the first clutch to have a relatively low survival rate? The weather got pretty cold here but I used night lights (I couldn't find ceramic heaters in time), could that have something to if with it? I'm really sad I tried so hard to take care of my little ones

 

[fluxlizard]

(been breeding veileds since 1991)

No it is not common for a low survival rate on a first clutch.

Something is for sure wrong.

Can you outline your husbandry for us?

Temperatures- I keep my babies at same temps as my adults (old school I suppose- but I've never had problems so I see no reason to change). I think I've had babies down to the mid 40s at night before without problems- down to 50 has been very common for my babies in the spring and fall even right out of the egg. You should not need heat at night.

Without knowing your husbandry- mistakes I made in the early years-

Too cool day temps (here I disagree with forum guidelines. Room temp for babies in my past experience was a really good way to end up with problems in babies who couldn't get their metabolism up and bodies operating (think immune system and digestive system) the way instinct tells them to do).

Too damp- enclosures need to dry out completely between mistings for babies. Constant damp conditions will cause them to crash.

Too dry- babies dehydrate quickly. Especially in tubs (screen enclosures actually a little easier for me- I use 2 x 20 minute mistings for babies every day in screen enclosures or even 1 x 20. In tubs or aquaria- babies should be misted every few hours lightly- a haze not puddles on the floor, when tank is completely dry, mist again within an hour or so).

Not enough d3, not enough vit a. Both of these things can cause babies to crash. Both are easily corrected if you figure you have under supplemented. Babies take in nutrients quickly and metabolize quickly, so if you can get them to feed, a meal or two can turn things around.

 

[fluxlizard]

A footnote on temperature- I make darn sure I've got a thermal gradient- you dont want to cook or dehydrate babies with too high temperature that they cannot move away from. I think this is why people are afraid of warm temps for babies- but babies thermoregulate just as well as adults do- it's part of being a chameleon and comes built in as a powerful instinct like drinking and feeding. So if you are trying room temp and decide to try to warm things up- make sure they can move out of the heat when they want as well. Don't force high temps on them.

 

[fluxlizard]

One other thing I thought of too- tiny insects and several light feedings a day is better than larger insects and fewer feedings. Constant presence of many insects will cause many babies to go off feed.

 

[fluxlizard]

Also got any pics of setups/babies?

Was thinking again just now of how I do mine- I stuff the enclosures full of twigs so they can use the whole space - that helps with getting along with each other and getting to food and water but also with the thermal gradient idea- lots of usable space so lots of temperature variation.

 

[fluxlizard]

Also how old are the babies?

 

[fluxlizard]

I've got to run to the store- probably someone will come along and help you further but I'll check in on the thread when I return to see if there is anything I can add, before I go back out to the lizard building to work.

 

[Asiabree1]

Thank you so much for such a quick reply, I have them in a 40 gallon tank with a palm frond (they hatched sooner than I expected so I wasn't completely prepared) I use a 60 watt day light that I keep on one side of the tank and a slim line UVB. I mist them twice a day lightly and it dries out completely between mists. They eat flightless fruit flies but my crickets should be delivered today. I clean out the poop as frequently as I can. I've read that they can confuse poop for food and get sick, maybe this is what is happening and I didn't start supplementing until they were about 2 1/2 weeks old which now that I know that most people supplement from the beginning I realize this was a mistake. I have some that look super healthy and great but others that aren't doing so well. I wish I would have done more research but like I said they hatched sooner than expected so I was unfortunately under prepared

 

[Asiabree1]

Thank you for the help again the babies are 27 days old now.

 

[Asiabree1]

I probably made it too hot because I was so worried about it getting too cold :/

 

[fluxlizard]

27 days seems like quite a while before problems started popping up- how long have you had losses?

Any chance your palm frond has something on it?

I haven't heard/seen youngsters eating poop and getting sick from it. Seems an unlikely problem IMO- many animals eat poop. I don't think I've ever noticed chams doing it though...

For me just reading your comments my suspicions would be-

the palm frond (I'd probably toss it out and get some old dead twigs and fill the tank with them)

dehydration (60 watt bulb over an aquarium tank with only 2 light mistings per day- I would think it dries out after 2-3 hours. You would probably need 3-5 light mistings. Just a guess though- can't tell without being there).

Supplementation- I have no idea what you are using or how often so I don't know what to say exactly but it would be on my hit list of suspicions. Or how you are offering food and how often. If there is a lot of food running around between feedings then keep in mind that supplements fall off after a while. Eager feeders would probably thrive and those who wait around until after the supplements wear off the feeders would do less well. The gap from hatching to 2 1/2 weeks old isn't good either, but by now regular supplementation should have prevented further problems I would think.

Fruit flies only isn't so great either. Especially at 4 weeks of age- mine would be eating 1/2" crickets likely by now. At least 1/4" even for people who keep them cooler and grow them slower than I do...

 

[fluxlizard]

I probably made it too hot because I was so worried about it getting too cold :/

Could be- could be contributing to dehydration. Make sure they can escape the heat- keep your bulb over one end of the tank, not the center.

 

[Asiabree1]

I'm using a calcium without D3 supplement, it's possible that the palm frond has something on it I suppose but i washed it before I put it in and it's from my yard and we don't treat them with anything. The first one died about a week ago maybe a little longer and since then more have died. As soon as I get home today I'm going to switch them to a lower watt bulb and I'll have my nephew mist them in the afternoons when I am at work. I just feel so bad about it, I hate seeing them die

 

[Asiabree1]

I did a multi vitamin dust today they seem to be doing better. And I was wrong it is a 50 watt bulb not a 60. I do have it on one side and I added some sticks. They seem much happier. Thank you so much for you're help, I only wish that I had posted sooner. At least I know for the future.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'm glad it appears to have helped. Let me know how they do for you.