Strange urate

[skittles1234]

My Jackson female has been tested for parasites twice in the 2 months I've had her. Both times they came back clear. But I'm beginning to doubt that is true. She started sleeping during the day now for the last 3 days. Now I found a couple of fresh poo's that have made my heart sink. There is no fecal visible at all and her urate looks as though it came of of an icing piping bag. It's so thin and long. Its white but appears as though she had to push it out of a small space out of her vent. It looks like a worm but it's clearly only urate with no fecal attached at all!!! What is happening to my sweet girl? I've been unable to get to a computer all day but I cannot sleep now and I'm just plain devastated

 

[skittles1234]

Please someone

 

[laurie]

I have requested help for you. hopefully tomorrow morning.

 

[Goatsniper]

Im going to the vet on Monday to get a fecal sample done of my new jackson, ill talk to the vet for you, Ill say your my neighbor or something. Not some random chick on the internet. haha. too bad you cant do it yourself. do you have access to a powerful microscope, a sanitary syringe, and a sanitary petri dish?

 

[Miss Lily]

Hi there - is this girl Miff, the one you are very worried about in your other thread? I would think that the journey and the whole closet thing may well have upset her and she may just be trying to get back to normal. Chams sometimes do produce just a urate with not poop, mine have done it several times when not eating much, even my you male Xanth has done it.

 

[skittles1234]

Thank you all for the support. And miss Lilly she produced only the urate but it was the presentation of the urate that worried me. If I were to pull it out straight it might be 2-3 inches long. It's very thin like a worm. And yes this is miff. I used To have a microscope. Can't afford another vet visit. Spent all night looking on the forum and Internet what this cold be. Thank you all agaiN for your help !!! Soooo appreciated

 

[skittles1234]

Im going to the vet on Monday to get a fecal sample done of my new jackson, ill talk to the vet for you, Ill say your my neighbor or something. Not some random chick on the internet. haha. too bad you cant do it yourself. do you have access to a powerful microscope, a sanitary syringe, and a sanitary petri dish?

No scope. Had to sell it to Thank you for the offer. Maybe your vets got better experience with jacksons mine forgot they gave live birth

 

[Miss Lily]

No scope. Had to sell it to Thank you for the offer. Maybe your vets got better experience with jacksons mine forgot they gave live birth

Oh dear - doesn't exactly fill you with confidence when you know more than your vet, does it? I have not (thankfully) had to deal with worms in chameleons, but I have with my crested geckos. Both had worms in their poop at the end of last year. It took me months and several visits to the vets for worm treatment before they finally got the all clear. For at least a month I was cleaning the very bare quarantine vivs with 10% bleach solution every night. Not much fun at all. Do you have pics of the urate/worm?

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Hmm. The first thing I think of when hearing this description is that there is something in the pelvic canal that is causing the opening to be narrow, causing the squeezing out effect you are seeing. First thing to think of in reptiles is kidney enlargement, which can be a sign of kidney disease. The kidneys are located along the backbone right above the hips, so when they are enlarged they can make the space smaller for anything going through it. Now chameleon kidneys aren't quite as centered over the hips as some other reptiles (iguanas, monitors) so I don't think that this is a very common presentation of kidney disease. You mentioned it was a female so do you think she could be gravid? I suppose that could also occupy enough space to have the same effect. But I don't jump to parasites with that description. Before you panic upon reading this, wait and see what the next fecal looks like. Maybe the next one will be normal because things will shift around normally and everything will be fine! Is there any mulch or rocks in her cage or anything that she could have eaten?

 

[skittles1234]

Hmm. The first thing I think of when hearing this description is that there is something in the pelvic canal that is causing the opening to be narrow, causing the squeezing out effect you are seeing. First thing to think of in reptiles is kidney enlargement, which can be a sign of kidney disease. The kidneys are located along the backbone right above the hips, so when they are enlarged they can make the space smaller for anything going through it. Now chameleon kidneys aren't quite as centered over the hips as some other reptiles (iguanas, monitors) so I don't think that this is a very common presentation of kidney disease. You mentioned it was a female so do you think she could be gravid? I suppose that could also occupy enough space to have the same effect. But I don't jump to parasites with THR description. Before you panic upon reading this, wait and see what the next fecal looks like. Maybe the next one will be normal because things will shift around normally and everything will be fine! Is there any mulch or rocks in her cage or anything that she could have eaten?

I don't think it is possible for her to be gravid. Not exactly sure on her age but she seems to be about 4 months old and is only 3 inches long from snout to vent. She has a back deformity that she was born with. Thats what i think is causing all this, plus stress. Her back looks more twisted then it ever has before. She has done 3 of these tiny weird poo's and miss lilly i cannot post a picture of it because my fiance has the camera right now. This pic is of her about a week after i got her. Her back seems to be getting very curved now and it looks as though someone pinched her hips inward and a very narrow space is avialable for anything to pass. Soooo worried right now. NO pebbles or mulch in the cage. I don't use substrate. There are rocks in the cage but they are as big as her. River rocks to cover the soil i planted my plants in. The soil is coconut husk ground up.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Oh, I didn't know about the back deformity. That is a useful key to the puzzle. Since she is still growing this definitely concerns me that the deformity has caused narrowing of the pelvic canal, which would cause what you're seeing. Has she had the normal amount of feces pass in this manner or does it look like urates mostly and not as much feces as usual? Since she hasn't been acting like herself that makes me worried about impaction (which is why I asked about substrate). If her amount feces seems to have decreased the pelvic canal might not be large enough anymore for feces to pass normally as she has grown more. She could have an impaction for that reason. Do you think feces have decreased?

 

[skittles1234]

Oh, I didn't know about the back deformity. That is a useful key to the puzzle. Since she is still growing this definitely concerns me that the deformity has caused narrowing of the pelvic canal, which would cause what you're seeing. Has she had the normal amount of feces pass in this manner or does it look like urates mostly and not as much feces as usual? Since she hasn't been acting like herself that makes me worried about impaction (which is why I asked about substrate). If her amount feces seems to have decreased the pelvic canal might not be large enough anymore for feces to pass normally as she has grown more. She could have an impaction for that reason. Do you think fecea have decreased?

She has only been producing urates the last 3 fecals she produced. She only has this long thin strand of urate coming out of her. The vet didn't seem to be at all concerned about the back deformity but now that its making her much more narrow, even more narrow and bent then in those pictures, i'm seriously concerned. Couldn't really post too much because i was on an iphone and now i'm on a computer so details aren't so vague.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I am definitely worried about her if you haven't seen any feces lately and she's not feeling well. That kind of deformity is not one that you can really do anything to fix...

 

[Dr O]

i'm with ferret on this one. a spinal deformity certainly may have associated deformities in the pelvic canal, and it can get so tightened down that normal stool cannot pass. another possibility is that she has nerve damage from the spinal deformity to the muscles that control the movement of feces and urates. either case is not a good situation.

what stands out in this case for ferret and myself is also that she is at the age where everything is growing and developing, so it is very possible that one of the above situations is taking place and will continue to worsen. conversely, this would not be as suspicious in a grown 4 year old.

her abdomen needs to be gently palpated to see if there is an obvious build-up of stool, and a vet may even be able to palpate enlarged kidneys too. certainly an xray would be very useful.

if she's narrowing down, only major orthopedic surgery could fix that. but with unhealthy bones i would advise against it anyway. elizadots was just discussing pear baby food as a stool softener the other day. that's not my ideal softener, but IF she is becoming impacted she needs enemas and oral softeners to survive this, and potentially continuing medications like that for life if that's what it takes for her to defecate. but if the pelvis keeps narrowing, or it is nerve damage from the spinal situation, it has the potential to get to the point where medication cannot work anymore.

i also agree that parasites are the least of my concerns right now, and honestly i wasn't sure about anything until you mentioned the worsening spinal deformity. but i think you can see how 2 vets zero on that instantly as the likely culprit.

without veterinary care, and maybe even with, this might turn exceedingly serious very quickly, i'm sorry to say. what's going on with her appetite?

dr. o—

 

[skittles1234]

She lost a bit of her appetite after the move 10 days ago now. She has started to eat 2 or three small crickets a day again. But of course I encourage her to eat more. I don't want and haven't given her any hard bodied feeders lately. I'm a bit devastated right now with this news. She pooped a bit of fecal with her urate yesterday. Very stringy though and thin and small. It made me so happy. But I'm not sure if this will be one of the last couple of poops that she could have. She is continuing her sleeping behavior though. A couple hours out of the day. It discourages me. I am not going to give up hope. She is very special to me as are all my chammies I very much appreciate both of you taking your time to help me and my Cham. Greatly appreciate it. I'll update everyone on her condition try to post some more pics when I get access to a computer. Thank you both sooo much and everyone else for their condolences

 

[skittles1234]

Got another appointment with the vet for Monday morning. I requested an x ray and another fecal sample to be tested (hopefully she will provide one.) I might have to get some type of stool softener soon here if it takes her another 3 days to poo.