Still need help!

[bridgofaith]

I posted a question a couple of threads down, but need some more help. Updated info:

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Full screen 24x12x24

Lighting - Repti Sun 5.0 tube UVB 18in. and Repti 50w basking spot

Temperature - Basking temp 85-90, overnight 70-74, digital ZooMed thermometer

Humidity - Before misting 50% after misting 70-80%

Plants - live potted plant, arboricola capella

Placement - on dresser, moderate traffic

Location - Florida

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Nosy Be approx. 5 1/2 months old. I have had him about 2 months. Purchased from very reputable breeder.

Handling - Never

Feeding - Phoenix Worms and Fruit Flies, rarely crickets. He won't eat them.

Supplements - No dusting for Phoenix Worms, dust fruit flies with Rep Cal Calcium w/D3 Phosphorus Free 1x week

Watering - Mist several times per day an use a dripper on slow drip

Fecal Description - Brown with white urates. No parasite testing

History - Started out with the wrong light, a compact. Changed to the tube light after abouth 3 weeks with the compact. Thought that would take care of all the issues. Saw a vet due to closing his eyes during the day. Vet thought he was having some calcium issues. Switched to the Phoenix worms and dusting the fruit flies. Posted the link to the other thread.

Current Problem - Not getting any better. Closing eyes and sleeping during the day. Not eating well. I saw him eat only 1 worm today. Not sure that he is drinking. Eyes don't appear sunk in. His balance seems off. He has fallen a couple of times. Had no problem catching his food before. Now, tries to shoot his tongue several times then gives up. I notice though that when he does this he is no where near the actual worm. I don't think he can see well. Is this a Vit A prob? Climbing all over his cage. Seems wobbly though. MBD?

Please help! Picture link in other thread.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-now-whats-wrong-25251/

 

[jannb]

Did you go to a vet that knows chameleons?

 

[bridgofaith]

Did you go to a vet that knows chameleons?

Yes, at least that's what I was told. There is another vet that is supposed to be better, but I won't be able to get in there until Tues. I'm afraid I may not have that much time to wait. I didn't go to him first because he was closed and I had to go to this other one.

 

[sandrachameleon]

what did the vet do to diagnose a calcium issue?

You said he's 5 1/2 months old, yet you're offering tiny fruit flies and tiny pheonix maggots. I wonder if cup or bowl feeding (to make it easier for him to catch things) some larger prey might help? Small crickets (gutloaded and dusted with calcium), small silkworms, small butterworms (which are natrually fairly high in calcium). Do you know how to gutload crickets?

Be cautious about supplementing with Vitamin A. For a chameleon that small especially. A vet should weigh the chameleon and provide a diluted supplment, IF this is determined to be necessary. Or feed the crickets something that contains vitamin a, just for now, just a little, as part of the gutload - to indirectly get a bit into him. I would not recommend at all that preformed Vitamin A be used very often. I NEVER add this to my chameleons diet.

If you're wanting him to drink more, consider a faster drip on that dripper. 2+ drips a second.

 

[bridgofaith]

what did the vet do to diagnose a calcium issue?

You said he's 5 1/2 months old, yet you're offering tiny fruit flies and tiny pheonix maggots. I wonder if cup or bowl feeding (to make it easier for him to catch things) some larger prey might help? Small crickets (gutloaded and dusted with calcium), small silkworms, small butterworms (which are natrually fairly high in calcium). Do you know how to gutload crickets?

Be cautious about supplementing with Vitamin A. For a chameleon that small especially. A vet should weigh the chameleon and provide a diluted supplment, IF this is determined to be necessary. Or feed the crickets something that contains vitamin a, just for now, just a little, as part of the gutload - to indirectly get a bit into him. I would not recommend at all that preformed Vitamin A be used very often. I NEVER add this to my chameleons diet.

If you're wanting him to drink more, consider a faster drip on that dripper. 2+ drips a second.

The fruit flies and phoenix worms are the only things I can get him to eat. I have given him crickets many times, but he refuses to eat them. Also to me , he seems very small for his age. I was wondering what the average size for a 5-6 month old panther is? Back on Apr. 28th when I first took him to the vet, he weighed 4 grams. Is this OK? The vet said he looked great. He only physically examined him, no tests were performed.

I have always free range fed him and he has never had any problems until now. I wish I could get a video so everyone could see exactly what I am talking about. He doesn't even sleep in his tree any more. He sleeps on the side of the screen cage now.

How often should they shed? In the 2 months I have had him, he has only shed 1 time.

I really thought I was well prepared this time around. I read everything and studied everything I could get my hands on for a full year before I made the purchase.

 

[sandrachameleon]

It will be interesting to hear what the other vet says.
Im not sure how one would diagnose a calcium issue if he "looks great" and not tests were done.

Perhaps if small crickets were in a cup or bowl suspended from a favoured branch, he might try them. Consider trying butterworms and silkworms too - that he likes pheonix maggots suggests perhaps he will go for larva.

have you verified temperature, humidity etc?

I dont think hanging on the screen is a sign of anything bad.

 

[bridgofaith]

It will be interesting to hear what the other vet says.
Im not sure how one would diagnose a calcium issue if he "looks great" and not tests were done.

Perhaps if small crickets were in a cup or bowl suspended from a favoured branch, he might try them. Consider trying butterworms and silkworms too - that he likes pheonix maggots suggests perhaps he will go for larva.

have you verified temperature, humidity etc?

I dont think hanging on the screen is a sign of anything bad.

Yeah, I have verified everything. I wasn't real impressed by the other vet. I honestly seemed to know more than he did. My main concern is his weakness and lack of control. He was sitting on the side of the food dish and randomly trying to catch food (again, no where near it) and lost his balance and fell in the bowl. But yet he has no problem climbing. He has drank like a fish today which I am very pleased to see.

 

[pr3mo15]

Try gut loading your feeders with carrots. As carrots have vit A, it MAY help.

Goodluck

 

[Julirs]

4 grams? Seriously? That is drastically underweight. He really needs to be eating crickets. Do you have newer pics?

 

[bridgofaith]

4 grams? Seriously? That is drastically underweight. He really needs to be eating crickets.

THANK YOU! I felt he was terribly small myself. What should he weigh at this age? I will try again to get him to eat crickets.

 

[bridgofaith]

Took Will to the good vet today. He has lost weight which I knew and is very small for his age. He gave him a dose of Flagyl and sent me home with Neocalglucon that I give him 2x a day. He also gave me a special food to feed him 1x daily until he gets his appetite back. I am suppose to call in the next couple of days with an update and a return visit in 2 weeks. He suspects MBD. Exactly what I was afraid of! My poor Will!

 

[Pure]

I'm kind of wondering if maybe having the compact floro on him during an important time of his development, hasn't partially blinded him.

 

[bridgofaith]

I'm kind of wondering if maybe having the compact floro on him during an important time of his development, hasn't partially blinded him.

I have MANY concerns about his eyes. I don't know, he definately sees any movement and his water and has no problem climbing. I just hope what we are doing works!

 

[jojackson]

Shedding frequency will depend its growth rate, hes not growing much at this point (should be) but shedding isnt a concern. Gaining weight is a priority at this point.
You may need to devote some quality time each day to try and get him eating voluntarily
by whatever means possible (dont try to force feed). Offering fattier feeders, may be nessesary until he improves, if you cant get him eating crickets right away.

Mine likes to eat after a drink/misting, I dont know why though.
Are both eyes open all day now and moving alot?

 

[bridgofaith]

Shedding frequency will depend its growth rate, hes not growing much at this point (should be) but shedding isnt a concern. Gaining weight is a priority at this point.
You may need to devote some quality time each day to try and get him eating voluntarily
by whatever means possible (dont try to force feed). Offering fattier feeders, may be nessesary until he improves, if you cant get him eating crickets right away.

Mine likes to eat after a drink/misting, I dont know why though.
Are both eyes open all day now and moving alot?

No, he is mainly sleeping now. I don't like the force feeding but the vet showed me how and told me I needed too until he was strong enough to eat on his own again. After I feed him he is nice and active (probably angry, I would be) and drinks like a fish. I sure hope that I'm doing the right thing. I'm gut loading some small crickets now on turnip greens and Fluker's high calcium cricket feed.

I really appreciate all of the advice and help! Thanks.