Sterilized... With eggs?

[Filosofine]

Hi guys

6 monts ago, On Christmas eve I discovered my yemen female was with eggs (her first time). When we reached valentines day, she hadn’t laid her eggs and did not eat or drink by her own. I had taking her to the vet several times, because I was so afraid that she would die of egg-binding. But now she had become very dehydrated (even though I forced water in her every day), so we had to take action. So the vet operated her. He removed the eggs and sterilized her at the same time, so that she didn’t have to go through that again. What the vet found in her stomach was a little unexpected though. It turns out she wasn’t able to make shells on the eggs. Not on any of them.

Well… about a week ago she started to get VERY active. She toppled all the plants and was digging all day. We contacted the vet, but he said there was nothing to worry about. It was normal behaviour and we should just remove the substrate and put the plants into pots (Then she started digging the plants up from the pots of cause).
We thought however this behaviour resembled the one she had when she was with eggs, but she couldn’t be, cause she was sterilized (She still has blue and golden spots, I don’t know if all adult females have those or only the ones with eggs?).
So we thought that maybe she was suddenly not liking her terrarium? And even though we had just paid over $1000 for a special designed home for her 7 months ago, we started building her a new one. Cause it was the only thing we could think of.
But then one morning… There was a small white thing on the bottom of the terrarium and I just knew this was an egg, but how?!?
I quickly made her a bucket to dig in and 8 hours later she laid her eggs. 64 eggs in 2 hours. That is damn good for a sterilized chameleon I would say *GG*
I of cause called the vet immediately, but he was on vacation (Go figure?). He did call me back however and said that some species had 2 reproduction systems and one of them properly was inactive since he hadn’t noticed it, when he operated her.

Have any of you ever experienced or heard anything about this? The vets here in Denmark really do not know anything about chameleons, so I would really appreciate anything you could contribute to the subject?

I am of cause very disappointed in our vet. This could easily have gone very bad Luckily she survived, but she is not in a very good condition. VERY dehydrated, weak and boney. But she has started eating again and we still force her to drink and we give her electrolytes to bind the fluids and she is gaining weight.

But now I actually don’t know what to do… Should we get her sterilized again? And hope this time it works? I don’t like seeing her this way and I do know that laying eggs is of cause very hard on her.

Thank you very much for reading. Please let me hear your opinion

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

If your vet left any ovarian tissue behind, which can even happen in dogs and cats, they will start laying eggs again. Sounds like the vet missed some follicles so she's going to have the ability to lay eggs again. It's up to you if you'd like to have her sterilized again. If you can find a vet more experienced with chameleons, or at least with reptile spays in general, that might be a better idea. But I'd let your original vet know about this so he knows he missed something and he'll be much more careful next time.

 

[Filosofine]

Hi ferretinmyshoes.

And thank you very much for your reply
I'm having a little trouble understanding how a little tissue is enough for her to lay eggs again? I mean she has no uterus?
Well I gues i'm a little afraid that her 'system' is not adequate anymore, because the vet did remove something? I know she made it this time and that is great, but i'm not sure that means she is out of danger next time.

By the way... How often do they lay eggs?

Kind regards

Filosofine

 

[kinyonga]

The female veileds have two oviducts. Maybe the vet only removed one? I had a female that had damage done to her by a male after which she produced/excreted unshelled eggs and then a couple of days later half the normal amount of eggs. She did this for a couple of years. Did you notice any unusual "poop" in the cage?

The veiled chameleon can lay eggs about every 120-130 days...but they don't always.

 

[Filosofine]

Hi kinyounga.
Thank you very much for your reply
Great to know they have two. The vet didn't know that :/
So she laid the eggs without shell? I thought that wasn't possible.
No she actually didn't poop almost a week before (She didn't eat anything as well, so thats probably why). But before this, I did wonder why she suddenly pooped every day and what came out of her was only about 3x5 mm. I didn't understand why she would go to the bathroom for so little. But maybe she was just so full of eggs, that every room in her counted?
And thank you very much for telling me how often they lay eggs. Very useful!
Could you maybe answer me on one more thing? The 'golden' spots, are they only for females with eggs? Or does all adult females have those colors?
No one can answer me this here. Everyone just have males :/
Kind regards
Jeanette

The female veileds have two oviducts. Maybe the vet only removed one? I had a female that had damage done to her by a male after which she produced/excreted unshelled eggs and then a couple of days later half the normal amount of eggs. She did this for a couple of years. Did you notice any unusual "poop" in the cage?

The veiled chameleon can lay eggs about every 120-130 days...but they don't always.

 

[Filosofine]

Here is a picture of the colors I mean The blue and golden...

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I'm having a little trouble understanding how a little tissue is enough for her to lay eggs again? I mean she has no uterus?

It depends on the technique your vet used. Chams don't really have a uterus, just ovaries and an oviduct, which is the tube that takes the eggs straight to the cloaca to be laid (in the tube is where the shell is added). Some vets only remove the ovary and leave the oviduct because if there's no ovary then the oviduct isn't going to do anything by itself and it's a less complicated procedure to just remove the ovaries. It's not wrong to do that. The downside is that if they leave any ovarian follicles behind then they've left a functional system because everything else is still in place. The ovary can actually regenerate some follicles if any tissue is left behind, so even if it was just a few follicles that were left behind there may be more now or later in life. Some vets take it all, some only take the ovaries, and some only take the oviducts (but I think the last one is more popular for birds). Or like kinyonga said, if he only removed one side then the other side is still producing eggs like normal. Most bird species only have one functional ovary, but reptiles generally have both sides.

Don't know about the coloration of your female, I only have males too!

 

[Filosofine]

It depends on the technique your vet used. Chams don't really have a uterus, just ovaries and an oviduct, which is the tube that takes the eggs straight to the cloaca to be laid (in the tube is where the shell is added). Some vets only remove the ovary and leave the oviduct because if there's no ovary then the oviduct isn't going to do anything by itself and it's a less complicated procedure to just remove the ovaries. It's not wrong to do that. The downside is that if they leave any ovarian follicles behind then they've left a functional system because everything else is still in place. The ovary can actually regenerate some follicles if any tissue is left behind, so even if it was just a few follicles that were left behind there may be more now or later in life. Some vets take it all, some only take the ovaries, and some only take the oviducts (but I think the last one is more popular for birds). Or like kinyonga said, if he only removed one side then the other side is still producing eggs like normal. Most bird species only have one functional ovary, but reptiles generally have both sides.

Don't know about the coloration of your female, I only have males too!

Hi ferretinmyshoes.
And thank you so much for explaining it to me I will talk to the vet about this to find out what he has already done, and what he can do Thank you very much.
Kind regards
Jeanette