Spoiled? Unnecessary? Or typical?
- Thread starter Speechgirl2
- Start date
Sonny13
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m doing the same with my female veiled and the rest. However, I only mist before bedtime and after waking up. Not during the night. The fogger runs from11.00pm till 06.00am for 15 mins every hour.I use a combo of fogging and misting throughout the night for my male veiled chameleon Cthulhu …
Does everyone move their fogger to cover their chameleon directly in the beam of the fog in the chameleons chosen sleeping spot du jour?
Or am I just a dork?
Speechgirl2
Member
Everything I’ve read states veiled chameleons need 80-100% humidity through the night. I would consider that high?
Sonny13
Chameleon Enthusiast
That’s basically what we advice and during the day 40%
Speechgirl2
Member
That was my impression
Speechgirl2
Member
May I ask what source advised this? Everything I’m seeing seems to completely contradict this
Sonny13
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think she meant no misting during the night and not continuously fogging, but in blocks of i.e. 15 mins per hour, each hour.
Speechgirl2
Member
Not sure what the intention was as only the person who made the comment knows that… would just hate for someone to read & believe “veileds don’t need a high humidity” in the context of discussing what they need at night (as was the context given in the initial post)
Speechgirl2
Member
I mist close to lights off and lights on, and fog in between through the night
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
The most important part of boosting humidity at night is to do so only when and if your night time temps are below at least 68, and definitely not higher than 70. We boost humidity at night to try and replicate the hydration that chameleons get in the wild from fog. If a keeper is not able to achieve the needed temp drop at night, it is better to forego the fogging than to risk causing a respiratory infection.
Speechgirl2
Member
So is the 80-100 percent humidity overnight recommendation only for specific temps? If so, is there a chart that shows the humidity recommendation for each corresponding temperature? Cthulhus enclosure stays around 70-72 during the day.. I just mist close to lights on and then have a dripper in the afternoon. It gets down to 68-70 at night so I usually mist close up sunrise and sunset and fog in between overnight. Are there different recommendations for those temps specifically?
It’s so confusing to have looked at so many references and to have had so many conversations with specific parameters of guidance and then to find out about contradictions exceptions etc that just happen to come up in conversation.
Is there a go to all inclusive accurate comprehensive care sheet that covers all this in one place?
It’s so confusing to have looked at so many references and to have had so many conversations with specific parameters of guidance and then to find out about contradictions exceptions etc that just happen to come up in conversation.
Is there a go to all inclusive accurate comprehensive care sheet that covers all this in one place?
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
what gets confusing is that humidity being 100% and blowing nebulized? fog on an animal are different. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it for some people, but I personally feel like the risks are higher. More often than not IMO it is overkill and just asking for an RI with some keepers(don’t mean this is you OP just a generalized statement). I don’t really know of any of the old school keepers that stuck to misting who have had RI’s or hydration issues. I feel like it is almost safer advice to stick to misting for newbs and take on fogging when the person has a good understanding of it and that it’s needed in their situation.
A lot of this is JMO, saying this all respectfully
A lot of this is JMO, saying this all respectfully
Speechgirl2
Member
My humidity usually stays between 70 and 80 in the terrarium in general which is why I try to aim a more concentrated fog beam closer to the chameleon.
I’ve just never had any kind of animal where the information on how to care for them properly was so hard to find consistently. We’re told to go search for info and so much of it is conflicting. We go with the recommendations on the recommended websites and are then told that’s wrong by some folks and right by others. It just seems like someone would have a single resource that clearly gives all the pertinent info or people would lead with “I’m not sure” or “it varies so these are indications to look for to make sure your chameleon is happy with what you’re doing” instead of just “wrong! Look it up. I don’t know why people do what you’re doing “
As a person new to chameleon ownership I’m just looking for the fastest most comprehensive accurate way to take the best care of my chameleon so he’s happy and healthy instead of having my questions met with vague ambiguity and condescension.
I’ve just never had any kind of animal where the information on how to care for them properly was so hard to find consistently. We’re told to go search for info and so much of it is conflicting. We go with the recommendations on the recommended websites and are then told that’s wrong by some folks and right by others. It just seems like someone would have a single resource that clearly gives all the pertinent info or people would lead with “I’m not sure” or “it varies so these are indications to look for to make sure your chameleon is happy with what you’re doing” instead of just “wrong! Look it up. I don’t know why people do what you’re doing “
As a person new to chameleon ownership I’m just looking for the fastest most comprehensive accurate way to take the best care of my chameleon so he’s happy and healthy instead of having my questions met with vague ambiguity and condescension.
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ This is the site you seek.
The whole night time fogging isn’t complicated - night temps below 68-70 and you can boost humidity, temps above 68-70 and you should not fog. It’s basically an all or nothing thing. You want warm dry days and cool wet nights. Warm and wet increases risks for respiratory infection.
The whole night time fogging isn’t complicated - night temps below 68-70 and you can boost humidity, temps above 68-70 and you should not fog. It’s basically an all or nothing thing. You want warm dry days and cool wet nights. Warm and wet increases risks for respiratory infection.
I am not sure if it is worth me posting as you have ignored my feedback when I tried to explain UVB prior to you in great detail. But since you keep asking for detailed explanation here it goes.
Fogging is just another form of hydration. This is where people get confused. They see 80-100% for night time humidity and think this is required. If you are wanting to add hydration via fogging then yes higher humidity is needed with this method. But you also need airflow to avoid stagnant air that they are breathing in. When done improperly in temps too warm chams develop respiratory infections. Ideally you want temps to be low anyways at night. They need a good temp drop regardless of your chosen methods of hydration. This is an important health aspect of keeping chameleons. So if you are not achieving the low temps then you should not fog. Low temps that are ideal is 60-65. They say it is safe if temps are under 68 but I would still go for cooler temps then that for the simple fact you need the temp drop for them as this is actually a separate health need.
This is the thing about this hobby. Implementing things when you know parts and pieces is not always a safe thing. Fogging has become popular in the last few years. 5 years ago if you mentioned it then you were told you would kill your chameleon. This method is still evolving. You have to have all aspects running together. Which a lot of times means asking experienced members for advice. 9 times out of 10 new keepers will have missed something. For example your temps at night are not in the recommended range for a veiled chameleon. Night time recommendations are 55-65 F. So you take that and overlay it with fogging and they work together. But when you miss the temp requirement for the species and implement the fogging you have now created a hot humid environment. This not only raises risk of RI but raises risk of bacterial growth in the cage.
I want to mention there is such a thing as over hydrating a chameleon with fogging. It very rarely gets talked about. There is not a lot known on it other than it is another extreme and leaders in the hobby do not recommend it, but it can happen easily when you are blasting them with fog. Their urates go from having a form to being pure liquid.
Jannb keeps her chams very differently. All are free ranged. Her method of hydration is misting and a dripper running during the day. This is another way to properly keep a veiled and provide hydration. So she does not fog and therefor does not boost night time humidity to the extreme levels those do with fogging. You will find with certain things in this hobby there are multiple ways to achieve the same goals. Hydration is a big one that has multiple methods along with methods changing based on cage type, temps, and even your ambient household levels.
In your threads you seem to get frustrated and I have to say this is not the way in this hobby. It is ever changing and the information and recommendations change with it. It becomes a situation like having a job where you are constantly learning to keep up. If you are looking at old sites or even old threads they are not going to line up with the current line of thinking. In the last 5 years husbandry has evolved quite a bit. Larger cage recommendations, all live plants, hydration methods, UVB information and equipment, supplement guidelines, bioactive set ups, and Female specific care to reduce clutch size are just a few that I have seen dramatically change in the last 6 years since I have been in the forum. Having an open mind and listening to keepers that have the experience will give you the information you need to form an entire picture of what your husbandry should be to provide the best for your chameleon.
Fogging is just another form of hydration. This is where people get confused. They see 80-100% for night time humidity and think this is required. If you are wanting to add hydration via fogging then yes higher humidity is needed with this method. But you also need airflow to avoid stagnant air that they are breathing in. When done improperly in temps too warm chams develop respiratory infections. Ideally you want temps to be low anyways at night. They need a good temp drop regardless of your chosen methods of hydration. This is an important health aspect of keeping chameleons. So if you are not achieving the low temps then you should not fog. Low temps that are ideal is 60-65. They say it is safe if temps are under 68 but I would still go for cooler temps then that for the simple fact you need the temp drop for them as this is actually a separate health need.
This is the thing about this hobby. Implementing things when you know parts and pieces is not always a safe thing. Fogging has become popular in the last few years. 5 years ago if you mentioned it then you were told you would kill your chameleon. This method is still evolving. You have to have all aspects running together. Which a lot of times means asking experienced members for advice. 9 times out of 10 new keepers will have missed something. For example your temps at night are not in the recommended range for a veiled chameleon. Night time recommendations are 55-65 F. So you take that and overlay it with fogging and they work together. But when you miss the temp requirement for the species and implement the fogging you have now created a hot humid environment. This not only raises risk of RI but raises risk of bacterial growth in the cage.
I want to mention there is such a thing as over hydrating a chameleon with fogging. It very rarely gets talked about. There is not a lot known on it other than it is another extreme and leaders in the hobby do not recommend it, but it can happen easily when you are blasting them with fog. Their urates go from having a form to being pure liquid.
Jannb keeps her chams very differently. All are free ranged. Her method of hydration is misting and a dripper running during the day. This is another way to properly keep a veiled and provide hydration. So she does not fog and therefor does not boost night time humidity to the extreme levels those do with fogging. You will find with certain things in this hobby there are multiple ways to achieve the same goals. Hydration is a big one that has multiple methods along with methods changing based on cage type, temps, and even your ambient household levels.
In your threads you seem to get frustrated and I have to say this is not the way in this hobby. It is ever changing and the information and recommendations change with it. It becomes a situation like having a job where you are constantly learning to keep up. If you are looking at old sites or even old threads they are not going to line up with the current line of thinking. In the last 5 years husbandry has evolved quite a bit. Larger cage recommendations, all live plants, hydration methods, UVB information and equipment, supplement guidelines, bioactive set ups, and Female specific care to reduce clutch size are just a few that I have seen dramatically change in the last 6 years since I have been in the forum. Having an open mind and listening to keepers that have the experience will give you the information you need to form an entire picture of what your husbandry should be to provide the best for your chameleon.
Speechgirl2
Member
The link you’ve shared has many sublinks So I’m not sure where the answer might be inverted under which of the links. So far I’m not finding the specificity of nuances of fogging at specific temps as has been brought up in this post. I think all the ambiguity and generalized recommendations are more confusing than clarifying. I work in the medical field and couldn’t imagine someone asking for my expertise and making it this difficult to find answers for just giving the best care for a living things basic well being! I thought the common goal was the health of the chameleons… not having everyone pay their dues with finding tidbits through a myriad of links and sub links. I thought this group would be a more efficient way to learn but it’s just turned out to feel more like hazing which isn’t my focus nor my priority.
Good luck to all. Take care
Good luck to all. Take care
Speechgirl2
Member
This is exactly the condescension I was talking about. Rude condescending communication doesn’t help my chameleon one bit but it seems to be a consistent priority for you. Enjoy hazing from your lofty perch
Speechgirl2
Member
Ps if you had just shown me the pic of the lamp that said shade dweller on it (as I later shared once I realized it) it would have been MUCH CLEARER than your lengthy yet still ambitious condescending lamp “explanation”
Who cares how quickly people need the info to take proper care of their new love… what’s more important is your ego OBVIOUSLY
And this is exactly why you will struggle in this hobby, because you are not open to feedback or clarifying information. I have been nothing but nice to you sharing valuable information each time I have attempted to help you. Not to mention spending quite a bit of time doing so. But that still is not good enough for you. This is why I have avoided every other post you have done since your shade dweller one which again you did not want to listen to me telling you it was a shade dweller set up.
There is no step by step guide in this hobby. Chameleon academy is getting closer but it is taking everything they give you and understanding a complex lay out of information. If you are not willing to take advice from those that actually have the experience to help you then your doing yourself a disservice.
And if you decide to stay in the forum and continue to act like this with people that are trying to help you it will get to the point where the experienced members avoid your threads.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey.
