Spectrum: blue vs red

Dankmeleon

New Member
Different spectrums of light have for a long time been associated with various plant growth. Blues will create a more compact short plant while reds will usually similate flowering spectrums.

metal halide is considered to be a blue white spectrum as its used for vegetative growth. (correct me at any time if I'm mistaken)

I'm wondering how if at all chameleons respond to various light spectrums, most notably in coloration. From my observations it would seem there is minimal differences between chameleons kept under 5.0-9.0 bulbs compared to the sun(plus penetration isn't the best with the flouro tubes)

I have long known the sun to be the best source of light available, even under 1000 watt high pressure sodium, I still get better growth outdoors with my plants, its the way it is. The intensity, matched with the lack of heat because the sun is so far away does wonders, plants grow HUGE, not to mention having to cope with elements making them stronger and robust.



Does anyone have any expert knowledge as to response of chameleons to different light spectrums. It would seem my outdoor chameleons are doing excellent, but could they be producing different colors under artificial lighting?
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Dark,

I think it stands to reason that since chameleons are the children of natural sunlight, and it has been shown that certain wavelengths are a "must", it doesn't detract from the logic that striving for wahtever best mimics the sun, if we must provide a substitute, is the smart way to go. To experiment so as to effect color, that is to change from what we know is best, is to invite more risk. To be "expert" in it would require someone subject a large enough sample to increased risk just to be able to say what ? You are aware of how plants can react, and growth patterns and colors etc affected. You can also throw a plant for a bit of a loop, then recover it quickly by getting it back to what worked better to begin with. You can even kill a plant and not be set back more than a few $. So are we supposed to throw our chameleons for a loop ? Do they bounce back if we made a mistake ? Many here would chastise you for attempting such with your own anuimals. I would frown at anyone who thought it a valid thing to attempt. Are they not pretty enough as created ?
 

Vegas Chad

Avid Member
I think it stands to reason that since chameleons are the children of natural sunlight, and it has been shown that certain wavelengths are a "must", it doesn't detract from the logic that striving for wahtever best mimics the sun, if we must provide a substitute, is the smart way to go. To experiment so as to effect color, that is to change from what we know is best, is to invite more risk. To be "expert" in it would require someone subject a large enough sample to increased risk just to be able to say what ? You are aware of how plants can react, and growth patterns and colors etc affected. You can also throw a plant for a bit of a loop, then recover it quickly by getting it back to what worked better to begin with. You can even kill a plant and not be set back more than a few $. So are we supposed to throw our chameleons for a loop ? Do they bounce back if we made a mistake ? Many here would chastise you for attempting such with your own anuimals. I would frown at anyone who thought it a valid thing to attempt. Are they not pretty enough as created ?


Agreed. Well put Jim.
 

Dankmeleon

New Member
I think it stands to reason that since chameleons are the children of natural sunlight, and it has been shown that certain wavelengths are a "must", it doesn't detract from the logic that striving for wahtever best mimics the sun, if we must provide a substitute, is the smart way to go. To experiment so as to effect color, that is to change from what we know is best, is to invite more risk. To be "expert" in it would require someone subject a large enough sample to increased risk just to be able to say what ? You are aware of how plants can react, and growth patterns and colors etc affected. You can also throw a plant for a bit of a loop, then recover it quickly by getting it back to what worked better to begin with. You can even kill a plant and not be set back more than a few $. So are we supposed to throw our chameleons for a loop ? Do they bounce back if we made a mistake ? Many here would chastise you for attempting such with your own anuimals. I would frown at anyone who thought it a valid thing to attempt. Are they not pretty enough as created ?


First of all I didn't say I was attempting anything so I don't appreciate the attitude, I asked for expert opinions not someone to type a bunch valid statements under the wrong context in a jerky tone

2nd of all I'm not trying anything that isn't already in practice, people keep there chameleons out side and people keep them in artificial lighting SIMPLE AS THAT

3rd while I appreciate your care for the well being of members on this forums chameleons, it isn't very polite to jump out there and shut down a good question knowledge is supposed to be created on forums not suppressed. I don't have much experience with these species which is why I'm ASKING for expert advice, as well as the thoughts of people who may have more knowledge on this.

please re read my post if you are having trouble understanding it or ask questions before you jump out on a limb and say people are going to chastise me for researching what type of spectrums are the best.
 
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Dankmeleon

New Member
my question wasn't can I take make shift l e d or party rainbow lights and test subject chameleons and see how they do with lack of PROPER spectrum, it clearly states my question as, chameleons do well outdoors but does anyone use artificial(repti glo or reptisun bulbs) and in addition to that I mention the use of H.I.D. lighting (metal halide and high pressure sodium). People on this forum should read before they go off on a tangid about chastising people for trying things
 
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Dankmeleon

New Member
actually after re reading that post, I found it to be a little informative and while I don't appreciate the tone, I do thank you for your thoughts
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Dank

Maybe you need to rework your question, but here is how the dots connect to the reader, in your own words:
Different spectrums of light have for a long time been associated with various plant growth. Blues will create a more compact short plant while reds will usually similate flowering spectrums.

metal halide is considered to be a blue white spectrum as its used for vegetative growth. (correct me at any time if I'm mistaken)

I'm wondering how if at all chameleons respond to various light spectrums, most notably in coloration. From my observations it would seem there is minimal differences between chameleons kept under 5.0-9.0 bulbs compared to the sun(plus penetration isn't the best with the flouro tubes)

You mention the reds and blues as they apply to plant growth. While you mention 5.0 and 9.0 later, those are not spectrums, but percentages, and regardless, you say that you are wondering about how chameleons respond to spectrums. The question was replied to as I believe it worded, and another poster saw it the same way. If you meant to ask about various types of UVB sources, by type of bulb, percentages of UVB as advertised, or specifics about the UVB spectrum in general, then your thread starter needs work.

It is hard to assign tone to the written word. If I could offer an objective suggestion, it would be to not include any parallels to plants, as it mucks up the issue too much, and is as comparing apples to oranges. The intricacies of the UVB spectrum, and different means of providing it, is an often discussed question, with much literature to support all. Good luck with your info search.
 

Dankmeleon

New Member
Maybe you need to rework your question, but here is how the dots connect to the reader, in your own words:


You mention the reds and blues as they apply to plant growth. While you mention 5.0 and 9.0 later, those are not spectrums, but percentages, and regardless, you say that you are wondering about how chameleons respond to spectrums. The question was replied to as I believe it worded, and another poster saw it the same way. If you meant to ask about various types of UVB sources, by type of bulb, percentages of UVB as advertised, or specifics about the UVB spectrum in general, then your thread starter needs work.

It is hard to assign tone to the written word. If I could offer an objective suggestion, it would be to not include any parallels to plants, as it mucks up the issue too much, and is as comparing apples to oranges. The intricacies of the UVB spectrum, and different means of providing it, is an often discussed question, with much literature to support all. Good luck with your info search.


thanks for the response, sorry I jumped to some conclusions, I know you mean well and are trying to help

perhaps it was both of us then who should read more in depth we all constantly learn and evolve which is one of the great things about pursuing knowledge online...your absolutely right I did muck up my question by stating some examples with plants but my question was there in between the lines, perhaps I need to work on getting to the point, and I was just using the the 5.0-9.0 bulbs as an example of flourescent lighting which as far as I know tends to lead more towards the blue side.

just because someone agreed with you still doesn't make you right but I give you credit anyways :)

:)
 
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Dankmeleon

New Member
the reason this question popped into my mind is from sativa420's thread on "tough guy" a yemen who comes from the same genetics but looks quite a bit more colorful than my chameleon who has been kept outdoors
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
Dank,

A considerable amount could honestly be written on some of the factors and performance specifications all mixed together that I think your question entails. As for the variance in appearance between two genetically similar chameleons, it could be as complex as any number of husbandry factors, or as simple as how the chameleon felt when the picture was taken. Siblings of every species need not be equally nice in appearance. Chameleons are notorious for going through phases that can last weeks or months, where while healthy appearing in all other ways, they choose to look dull.

Those 5.0's and 9.0's are by design on the blue end, as their primary purpose is to produce lower-end of the spectrum light, hopefully enough of it in the UVB range to meet the needs of the animal. Most human-designated wavelength scales will put UVB at 290-320 nanometers, give or take. A 5.0 is telling you that 5% of its energy output is in that range, and is no more specific than that. Trouble is, to the chameleon, what is around 296 nm (give or take) seems to be the ideal, and if most of the 5.0 is up around 315 (still UVB by human definition), it may not be as effective as other UVB sources that cover the lower end better. I cannot speak to what products have the best track record there, as I through in the towel and went real sun long ago. But there are plenty of folks reporting success with many readily available products. The UVB is a must, but the reason it gets a lot of specific concern is that most light sources don't have it, and so must be addressd by a light that is designed to produce better in that range, but usually lacks in others. In the last 5-10 years, more economical mercury vapor products that combine an all-in-one capability, that is to say all necessary wavelengths, have become popular. Since the red end is easily provided by so many common light sources, it does not need special attention when selecting products. Most household bulbs have that covered. Can't say for sure as this was part of what you were looking for, but I did try :D
 
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DraftDayz

New Member
The way i read the post was that he was asking about overall light sources, not just UVB. Full spectrum lighting has been talked about before on here, so if you searched "HID" you might get the hit, assuming the thread is alive.

We use these lamps in many evo experiments as well as some of our herps such as anoles and geckos. These lamps are from confiscated marijuana growers that the police give to us every few years when theyre cleaning out the evidence rooms. That being said, I or anyone else in the department has never kept chams and used these setups specifically for them. It seems to be fine for anoles and geckos, but chams seems to be much more reliant on sun-like light.

This is just my opinion, but, I find nothing wrong with research. Through research, husbandry will always get better. Although the road one takes might not be a happy one. A large part of research, is failure.
 

Dankmeleon

New Member
yea it goes to teach a life lesson about the road you take as well, in all aspects of life, you manage yourself and reach the ultimate goal by the choices you make and path you chose
 

sativa420

New Member
yea and ill kick your sorry ass...........just kidding. i also wondered about keeping cams umder halide lighting. the only problem i see is heat. also i dont see cams likeing hps as the red coloration. mh looks more like natural sunlight so i see that being a better choice. u get my pm dank?
 

Dankmeleon

New Member
yes I did, I'd pm you my shit but the feds probably tap my computer so I'll refrain even though I'd like to I'm sure you have already guessed I'm doing quite well lol
 
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