Silkworms and Butterworm

[Shaner]

Hey All,

I just wanted to ask this question:

Is it ok to keep Silks and Butters as your main staple? I currently use crix, and mealworms, but everyone says that silks and butters are very healthy. Lots of calcium, easy to digest (as a bonus they don't make noise), but are they fatty? That is the last thing I want is fatty liver disease from using these as a staple.

Anyone have this answer?

 

[JoshCrane1]

if your going with soft bodied worms as a staple, get ready for a messy cham diarrhea.

and butterworms arent good for staple, compare them to a double cheeseburger from mcdonalds. maybe a treat every once in a while. and i would also switch from mealworms to superworms, more healthy and less chitin.

 

[panthercrazy]

Each bug has its benefit. I believe variety is the key in any diet.

My understanding is that butters do have a fat content as well as calcium.

Protein is found in hornworms (very high protein equal to protein in 36 crickets) and crickets (gutloaded) but one has to worry about feeding too much protein as kidney issue would result. Crickets would be like filler as well with additional benefits provided gutloaded, Unfortunately I don't see being able to get away from feeding crickets altogether.

Wax worms are nice treat, most reptiles love them but the fat content is high. They are good to feed when an animal has laid eggs or needs to put on weight. - Straight fat no real benefit other than putting weight on quickly.

Superworms are fat content as well but 'bad fat' compared to a wax worm 'good fat' if ever such a thing. This is where I had been told supers are like mcdonalds every day.

Of course the feed is only as good as the gutload.

I never understood why some bugs eg. meals are shipped in bran...so they are eating right...superworms around here come in dirt! What benefit is in potting soil for bugs to be eating & in turn feed to reptile?


Anyways to your original questions, here is a quote directly of a bug suppliers website: (www.silkworms.ca)

"Butter Worms are high in calcium, they have a higher calcium content than any other feeder insect equal in size."

" Silkworms contain superior amounts of calcium, proteins, vitamins and nutrients"

I'd check out the info on some other main feeder suppliers and see what their facts state about the products as well. Another good one for Canada is www.canadianfeeders.com.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Each bug has its benefit. I believe variety is the key in any diet.

I agree. Variety is a good thing.

You can use silkworms often, and butterworms fairly often - but I wouldnt use either one as a staple. You are right to get away from using mealworms too frequently. But a nice combo might be silkworms one day, crickets the next, butterworm and mealworm the next day, crickets and silkworms the next....
Roaches are also a great addition to consider.

If you're mostly going to offer softbodied larva (like silkies), do add in some chinton heavier feeders from time to time (mealworm, isopod) to act like fibre

 

[Shaner]

I will do a vast variety of bugs when he gets older.

He is only about 4 months old and maybe 5 inches in length including tail. A little skinny at the moment, so I am starting to give him some wax worms, not many 2-4 a week for 2 weeks only.

As for super worms they are a little too big for him to eat and being so little I don't think something that big should be ingested. When I buy the butters and silks they are just tiny.

He gets meal worms more or less over crix becuz they are noisy. I know this has been a major discussion before, but hey like you said they are only as good as the gut load. I always have oatmeal in there for them so there is the fibre, alot of water from his dripper, and I include fruit and veggies in with the meal worms for a gut load too.

But thanks for the links I will do a double check on stuff like that. And thank you all for your input, more is welcome.

Shane

 

[Clifford]

mealworms are a little hard for the chameleons to digest - its the chinton in their skins.
I can buy superworms in three sizes here - sm, md, lrg. Maybe ask where you buy them to sell you little superworms?
I use butterworms often too. They are better choices than waxworms, I beleive.
Crickets cant make noise if you take their wings off

 

[JoshCrane1]

mealworms are a little hard for the chameleons to digest - its the chinton in their skins.
I can buy superworms in three sizes here - sm, md, lrg. Maybe ask where you buy them to sell you little superworms?
I use butterworms often too. They are better choices than waxworms, I beleive.
Crickets cant make noise if you take their wings off

haha, i can just imagine sitting there for a couple hours tearing the wings off crickets,lol. and while im at it, i will kill an entire ant pile with a magnifying glass.

 

[sandrachameleon]

haha, i can just imagine sitting there for a couple hours tearing the wings off crickets,lol. and while im at it, i will kill an entire ant pile with a magnifying glass.

I dont think it's such a bad or unrealistic suggestion. I've done it (using scissors). Of course, I usually only buy small numbers of crickets, and I only bother quieting them if I have guests coming

 

[Shaner]

Right now my little guy is on Cricket hiatus. He won't eat them, I just bought a bundle of 500...ther goes $30 down the drain.

This is why I have to use meal worms...I am not too sure if they are meal worms or super worms, they both look the same it is hard to tell. I buy the big super worms for my beardie and he loves them.

I will ask at my supplier the next time I buy, if he can't get me what I want, if not then maybe I will have to start buying food online, maybe at www.canadiansilkworms.com. All we can get at any other store here is crix, and when he goes on hiatus.........it can take a couple of weeks before he eats them again. I do a mix up, not just crix all the time, I will put in meals and crix, all the crix stay and the meals go, or butters and crix but the same thing happens crix stay.

Chameleons are very frustrating but so worth it at the same time

I want to try phoenix worms, but is it true that you have to poke a hole in them for proper digestion?

 

[sandrachameleon]

He's like about four months old, right? You could try pheonix worms. If your cham chews his food, no need for the pin prick. Personally I think Pheonix worms are a waste of time and money, since they're so small and often come packed in sawdust that you have to clean off.

CanadianFeeders or CanadianSilkworms should both have
silkworms, kingworms (superworms), and butterworms.

Try to find out for sure that you are using small superworms (NOT supermealworms). You can get superworms that are smaller/younger, and these are better than using mealworms.

 

[Shaner]

Thanks Sandra,

I will certainly give that a shot. Raising a small Chameleon is very tough and time consuming, don't get me wrong it is worth all of the time I am putting in, but man oh man they are tough.

I can't wait until he is bigger so it is a tad easier

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thanks Sandra,

I will certainly give that a shot. Raising a small Chameleon is very tough and time consuming, don't get me wrong it is worth all of the time I am putting in, but man oh man they are tough.

I can't wait until he is bigger so it is a tad easier

Enjoy its youth! They grow up so fast!

 

[Chamfan123]

Do supers provide any benifits that others don't? I was gonna consider doubling them up as feeders with crix. How many do i give each feed?

 

[sandrachameleon]

Do supers provide any benifits that others don't? I was gonna consider doubling them up as feeders with crix. How many do i give each feed?

I think the only signficant benefit is that the chameleon will see it as something different - variety is good. Superworms (aka kingworms aka Zophobas morio) can be gutloaded, like crickets. And also like Crickets, they should be lightly dusted with Calcium. Zophobas are higher in fat vs protein than crickets. But they're still a decent option. How many you offer and how often will depend on the size, type and age of your chameleon. A really big Zophobas might equate to two or three crickets.