Sick Veiled - Tongue not shooting, shedding often

Cypress

New Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, 1.5 years old, in my care for 1 year. Named Cypress.
  • Handling - As often as he wants to come out of the cage - ranges from 1-3 times a week.
  • Feeding - Large crickets fed fruits and Flukers High-Calcium feed. When he is eating normally he will eat 10-20 crickets daily, with the occasional disinterest when looking for a female friend or shedding. He will eat from hand, from cup, and from roaming crickets. However - as I will mention below due to his lack of eating I have given him a hornworm a couple of times recently.
  • Supplements - Flukers Calcium with D3, Rep-Cal Herpavite with Beta Carotene Multi. Calcium couple times a week, vitamin 1 time about every other week.
  • Watering - I spray the tank 2-3 times a day. I only see him go to drink the water if it got particularly dry in there, which I could count on one hand. But when I spray him directly he will lick his lips. Leave droplets hanging from top screen and on foliage in tank.
  • Fecal Description - Never been tested, poop brown, white and yellow urate.
  • History - Got him at we are guessing 6 months, could be closer to 8. From a pet store that did not take great care of him. As a young adult he hated people and wouldn't eat if we were in the room. Long road to build trust as usual, but we are buds now unless he is having a particularly feisty day. We moved from an apartment to a house in April.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 2x2x3 foot reptibreeze
  • Lighting - 12hrs on, 12 hrs off, UVB and regular heat bulb. Changed the UVB to a new one a month ago as recommended when the other UVB reached about the 6 month mark.
  • Temperature - Thermometer in tank is placed at the top. Seasons adjust the room temp a bit. Top of his tank right now in the summer is about 73F at night and in the high 80's to during the day. Basking spot is warmer.
  • Humidity - 60 at night when dry. Fluctuates during the day around misting.
  • Plants - Live and fake, live are large-in-law's tongue, small pothos, small wax. He has a ficus he gets on when he comes out.
  • Placement - In a room by himself, second floor of a house, near a closed window and closed vent. Very low traffic. He only sees us when we come and say hi or feed him. Cage is about 2 feet off the floor.
  • Location - Cincinnati, Ohio

Current Problem:

Cypress is showing some odd signs. Biggest problem right now is lack of interest in food because of some tongue problems.

But I'll start with what I noticed a while ago. He typically sheds once every 2-3 months. Then the shed in May (normal), again in June (confused me), and then this week his tail shed. His shedding has been very slow so I don't know yet if his tail shedding is part of a new shed that's starting this week or the end of the last one. Will update.

I noticed probably a month or 2 ago that his shots seemed soft. I noticed when I was either hand feeding or holding a cup up for him. His aim was great, but he didn't his like he used to. It was slow and gentle. I didn't know if this was abnormal or if he just knew "OK I don't have to trey super hard for these ones" and just knew how far away they were. His eating was sporadic, which I assumed was because of all the shedding. When I would go to feed, he just wanted out and acted aggressive, not interested in food, even his mealworm treats weren't catching his attention sometimes.

When I started getting concerned about the amount he was eating, the store started carrying hornworms. He did eat those, and I felt a little better thinking that one big meal is better than nothing with his weird behavior. I have given him 3 of these in probably the last month and a half. (Once was because the store and I were out of crickets, so that was to hold him over.)

The big issue:

Yesterday morning I tried changing his schedule of feeding in the late afternoons (there are usually a cricket or two roaming during the day) to trying in the morning. He shot into the cup 6 times and couldn't "reach" the crickets with his tongue. He was interested, but couldn't get them. He was not interested in eating from my hand. I released about a dozen into the tank in hopes that he could snag some during the day but realized that we have a real problem.

When I got home last night, I tried by hand again and got him to eat three. I think he tried, but his tongue didn't really come out of his mouth. He ate three, but I had to let him basically eat them from my fingertips. I do not use tweezers to feed.

His tongue looks fine, does not look swollen or like he is swallowing it. No weird coughing or sneezing. Full of energy when he wants to be grumpy, and still has a vice grip with his feet.

I don't know if this is a temporary issue where he hurt his tongue shooting at something in the tank and just needs time. His eating less has me concerned as well, but I didn't know if all of the shedding was messing with his comfort and appetite.

Any insight or experience with this would be incredibly helpful.
 
Welcome to the forums and I'm sorry to hear that you are having some problems with Cypress. I would give the tongue a rest in case he has injured it. Do not offer him any food at all for 3 days. Then when you do start feeding him hand feed and hold the food real close so he can just take it without using the tongue. I would do this for a couple weeks and slowly start allowing him to do short shoots with the tongue. How often do you feed him? I feed adults 3 times a week. It's good to only feed healthy adults every 2 to 3 days so they will be hungry when you feed them. If you offer food everyday, especially the same feeders they get bored with food. I also recommend a fecal to check for parasites. Parasites can cause lack of appetite. There's a good chameleon vet in the Cincinnati area. I'll link his info for you below.

As veileds get older they often shed in sections instead of a full body shed as they do when young.

In addition I recommend better gut loading and a variety of feeders. He should also have atleast a 4 foot high cage and calcium with d3 should only be used twice a month. A supplement inbalance can also cause tongue issues.

Chameleon vet near you: http://www.vetratingz.com/ratings/1231/Veterinary+Clinic+Robert+Dahlhausen,+DVM.html
 
Jann is the veiled whisperer I would take her advice to get him checked out and give the tounge a rest. Around that age it is typical for them to eat less and shed in sections, the older they get the slower the sheds come off.
 
Thank you so much @jannb for the recommendation and vet, I really appreciate your time and advice. I do try to feed him daily, so I will remove any additional bugs from the tank and adjust his feeding schedule. Thank you as well @guanagator - I feel a bit better that hopefully time and rest will help. I will check out that vet to try and get a fecal test.
 
Last edited:
Update:

Last night he ate 9 large crickets (no dusting) after I withheld food for three days. I held it very close to allow him to do as little work as possible, practically putting the bugs directly in his mouth.

Things I noticed while he was chewing:
  • Only when he opened his mouth very wide while chewing, i heard a small noise that sounded like a click. This would only happen on the first couple of bites while he was moving the cricket into the back of his mouth. When I looked into it I read about URI. He only did it while chewing, it made me think it was tongue or jaw related, rather than mucus or breathing related. I will try to record it when I offer him food tomorrow.
  • He ate slower. I wonder if that is just an injured tongue and the swallowing process would be slower.
His behavior is normal otherwise.

I cleaned his tank this weekend so that I should be able to get a fresh fecal sample.

@jannb How much do your healthy adults eat each time when you are feeding them 3x a week?
 
Update:

Last night he ate 9 large crickets (no dusting) after I withheld food for three days. I held it very close to allow him to do as little work as possible, practically putting the bugs directly in his mouth.

Things I noticed while he was chewing:
  • Only when he opened his mouth very wide while chewing, i heard a small noise that sounded like a click. This would only happen on the first couple of bites while he was moving the cricket into the back of his mouth. When I looked into it I read about URI. He only did it while chewing, it made me think it was tongue or jaw related, rather than mucus or breathing related. I will try to record it when I offer him food tomorrow.
  • He ate slower. I wonder if that is just an injured tongue and the swallowing process would be slower.
His behavior is normal otherwise.

I cleaned his tank this weekend so that I should be able to get a fresh fecal sample.

@jannb How much do your healthy adults eat each time when you are feeding them 3x a week?


It depends on the feeders and the size of the feeders. Some examples below for a healthy adult male veiled;

1 med. roach
3 large crickets
1 Superworm
2 large butterworms

or

3 med. crickets
1 fairly large hornworm

or

2 med. roaches
5 large crickets
1 super worm

or

4 med. crickets
2 large silkworms
2 moths

If crickets is all you have probably 7 or 8 large crickets

I also feed my guys greens, veggies and fruits a couple times a week.
 
It's been close to a year of Cypress with a bum tongue, here is his update:

Still alive! He definitely seems weaker than he used to be. When he gets on my arm he has a lot more trouble holding on than he used to. I have to force-feed quite a bit. He primarily eats roaches now because they are large and nutrient-dense. If I can get a piece of the bug in his mouth he will go for it. But he's not aggressive other wise to seek food while I hold it. He has eaten a cricket or two here and there. Hornworm seem to still be the most appealing to him.

At the vet we did a fecal sample and the blood test and all of his levels seemed relatively normal except for his protein because he had not been eating very much. My one regret is letting the doctor trim his nails. He seemed to know what he was doing and Cyprus would break the skin when crawling on my arm and hands. Of course later when I found out that he had been falling and looked into it everyone says do not let anyone trim your chameleons Nails. Lesson learned. I called the vet to give them that specific feedback. He does not fall anymore.

He has never been particularly interested in fruits and vegetables but I'm trying a new method of chopping them up and leaving them in a different dish. Green's he's only gone for once or twice and if I leave them in there they wilt.

I found this post to be helpful for a different container to try to leave some feeders in there. I have been feeding him by hand 100% of the time since the problem started.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/this-is-how-you-eat-without-a-tongue.50679/
 
Back
Top Bottom